Scottish independence

Glen_Clark

talexuser wrote: »

Got to be some reaction to a yes, but if they vote for independence, and then refuse to accept any share of the national debt, then I can't see world markets having much trust in a new Scottish government's promises or bonds, after refusing responsibility for historic liabilities, especially if financials also relocate to London.

Iceland welched on its debts and seems to be doing ok financially?
Deficit Dave has told the Scots they can't have the pound as he doesn't want a shared currency - and yet we have already got a shared currency with Gibraltar, Falklands, Channel Islands, Isle of Man etc, all of whom have their own Governments. So the Scots might say if you are being so unreasonable taking our pound you can take all the debts that go with it???
Why would the Tories really want Scotland anyway when most of the Scottish Votes are Labour?
If the Tories got rid of Scotland they would have a much better chance of being elected.
Is their intransigence the Tories back door way of getting rid of Scotland?
I don't know, but politics is a dirty business, and I wouldn't put it past them because can see from other policies like the cynically titled 'Help to Buy' they would rather build up the National Debt than lose the election.
PS: Sorry to bring politics into this, but Scottish Independence is the title of the thread and that is inseparable from politics.

wiogs

anoncol wrote: »

Only scots care about this.

Even though it is not just the Scots who can vote?

edinburgher

Got to be some reaction to a yes, but if they vote for independence, and then refuse to accept any share of the national debt, then I can't see world markets having much trust in a new Scottish government's promises or bonds, after refusing responsibility for historic liabilities, especially if financials also relocate to London.

I've made my mind up on how to vote, but am keeping my own politics out of this

That said, I've not seen any evidence that the Yes campaign are talking about not honouring national debt obligations. Yes, there has been a wee bit of saber rattling (give us the last few barrels of oil or we'll not pay the national debt), but this is just part of the background noise of the campaigning (which has all been tinged with negativity).

If and when independence comes around, I'm sure a settlement would be agreed. I doubt that Scottish politicians want to be international pariahs!

Glen_Clark

I don't know how they could calculate a share of the National debt given that most of it is off balance sheet like Gordon Browns PFI contracts, Alisdair Darlings commitment to guarantee sub prime bank debt, Gideon Osborne's guarantees of sub prime mortgages, Public sector pensions committments etc etc.
Like the official inflation statistics, the Government has a vested interest in making their National Debt out to be lower than it really is - and the National Debt is far more opaque....

colsten

edinburgher wrote: »

I doubt that Scottish politicians want to be international pariahs!

I am sure you are right but the SNP are doing a damned good job at showing that international pariahs is precisely what they would like to be. They are certainly expecting rUK, the EU and NATO to give them everything they demand, in return for - basically - nothing. As and if there is a Yes vote, there will be some very rude awakening for Scotland as other people also have a right to get what they want.

Glen_Clark

Well it seems Alec Salmond has got it in the bag as Gordon Brown has weighed in on the other side: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/11059308/Gordon-Brown-warns-Labour-voters-independence-will-only-help-rich.html

talexuser

Yep, Gordon Brown, man of wisdom and authority who knows what he is doing - a man you can trust :eek:

edinburgher

I am sure you are right but the SNP are doing a damned good job at showing that international pariahs is precisely what they would like to be.

People are afraid of change, independence would be a massive one. I get the distinct impression that the SNP really believe in their mission. I agree that they have consistently over-egged the pudding as regards our bargaining clout post-independence, but what else could they do? If they showed a bit more humility about the uncertainties they would lose momentum.

As a voter, the choices would seem to be heartfelt (perhaps a little naive?) optimism for Scotland's future, or the continuation of a status quo that brings benefits, but may not always work for the nations involved (Scotland *and* the rest of the UK).

I won't be betting on the outcome, although I will watch events unfold with great interest

JohnRo

The great fear amongst the establishment, I suspect, is that an independent Scotland will show the cleptocrats running Westminster, and everyone else, how a parliament should be run for the benefit of the people it claims to represent.

colsten

edinburgher wrote: »

As a voter, the choices would seem to be heartfelt (perhaps a little naive?) optimism for Scotland's future, or the continuation of a status quo that brings benefits, but may not always work for the nations involved (Scotland *and* the rest of the UK).

Just about the only thing you can be certain about is that, regardless of the outcome of the vote, there will be significant numbers of very unhappy people in Scotland after September 18.