Talking is not working, what to do now?

Primrose

It seems he misunderstood you about the holiday, ie thinking you were suggesting a normal "fun/relaxation " holiday away together rather than a break away for you both to clarify your thoughts on the relationship.

I think you need to reemphasise to him that it is not a fun holiday you were proposing but a short separation so that you can both reflect on the state of your marriage. I do think it's important you get this point across to him so that he gets the message of "apartness"' especially if you have not taken separate breaks away from each other previously..

I hadn't realised he inherited the house which is why you feel it should be you who leaves. If you split and divorce you would in any case be entitled to a share of any house sale proceeds even if the house is in his name. (You may also want have an initial discussion with a solicitor so that you understand up front all the legal/financial issues you would face if your marriage does break up ).

Perhaps at this point you need to ask him some specific questions you want him to be able to answer honestly when you return from your break.

1. Do you now find me physically unattractive and is that why we have no sexual contact? (And you perhaps need to ask yourself If you have let your appearance go, perhaps out on a lot of weight, etc?)

2. Are you suffering from some kind of erectile disfunction that you have not been able to admit to me? (If so, tell him you will be understanding but you insist he sees a doctor to see if help is available)

3. Is he having a sexual relationship with somebody else?

4. Is he prepared to reengage with you so that you start functioning as a proper couple again, ie going out regularly for a meal, joining in some local social activities together , going walking, dancing, to the theatre, etc.

5. Is he prepared to start relearning how to act towards you as he did when you were first married, ie having regular hugs, kissing, saying nice things to each other and generally showing that he values you. Does he actually want to do that or not?

Now I know questions like this are hard to broach but I think you need to start delving Into some specifics and force him to come up with some answers. I think his lack of response so far is avoidance tactics, and if my partner or OH had avoided responding to the messages you gave him I would take it as a direct sign that he either didn't t want to answer to avoid telling a lie, getting involved in an argument or he was keeping quiet to avoid confronting uncomfortable issues that he himself doesn,t know how to deal with either.

The reality is though that sometimes we all have to deal with uncomfortable issues if we want to make relationships work and it is the elephant in the room that is often the most problematic one to resolve. In your case it seems to be that your husband won't face up to difficult issues and thinks he can for ever go on putting his head in the sand.

Your task now is to winkle his head out of the sand so get that break organised for yourself soon, start asking him the difficult questions and put a date in your diaries for two days after your return to sit down and talk through your issues, so you can decide whether you stay together or split up. Perhaps your chat with him just wasn't assertive enough for him to have realised it actually signalled "crunch time". That you have had to resort to this forum in desperation shows that indeed it is, and I think it is this message you now have to try and get across to him.

I would ask incidentally, if he has ever been diagnosed with depression. It manifests in many ways but often in an inability to shake oneself out of any kind of languor or emotional or physical inactivity. If you think this may be something to do with the current state of affairs encourage him to see his GP and insist on going with him for he will surely not go of his own accord.

sunshime

Primrose wrote: »

It seems he misunderstood you about the holiday, ie thinking you were suggesting a normal "fun/relaxation " holiday away together rather than a break away for you both to clarify your thoughts on the relationship.

I think you need to reemphasise to him that it is not a fun holiday you were proposing but a short separation so that you can both reflect on the state of your marriage. I do think it's important you get this point across to him so that he gets the message of "apartness"' especially if you have not taken separate breaks away from each other previously..

I hadn't realised he inherited the house which is why you feel it should be you who leaves. If you split and divorce you would in any case be entitled to a share of any house sale proceeds even if the house is in his name. (You may also want have an initial discussion with a solicitor so that you understand up front all the legal/financial issues you would face if your marriage does break up ).

Perhaps at this point you need to ask him some specific questions you want him to be able to answer honestly when you return from your break.

1. Do you now find me physically unattractive and is that why we have no sexual contact? (And you perhaps need to ask yourself If you have let your appearance go, perhaps out on a lot of weight, etc?)

2. Are you suffering from some kind of erectile disfunction that you have not been able to admit to me? (If so, tell him you will be understanding but you insist he sees a doctor to see if help is available)

3. Is he having a sexual relationship with somebody else?

4. Is he prepared to reengage with you so that you start functioning as a proper couple again, ie going out regularly for a meal, joining in some local social activities together , going walking, dancing, to the theatre, etc.

5. Is he prepared to start relearning how to act towards you as he did when you were first married, ie having regular hugs, kissing, saying nice things to each other and generally showing that he values you. Does he actually want to do that or not?

Now I know questions like this are hard to broach but I think you need to start delving Into some specifics and force him to come up with some answers. I think his lack of response so far is avoidance tactics, and if my partner or OH had avoided responding to the messages you gave him I would take it as a direct sign that he either didn't t want to answer to avoid telling a lie, getting involved in an argument or he was keeping quiet to avoid confronting uncomfortable issues that he himself doesn,t know how to deal with either.

The reality is though that sometimes we all have to deal with uncomfortable issues if we want to make relationships work and it is the elephant in the room that is often the most problematic one to resolve. In your case it seems to be that your husband won't face up to difficult issues and thinks he can for ever go on putting his head in the sand.

Your task now is to winkle his head out of the sand so get that break organised for yourself soon, start asking him the difficult questions and put a date in your diaries for two days after your return to sit down and talk through your issues, so you can decide whether you stay together or split up. Perhaps your chat with him just wasn't assertive enough for him to have realised it actually signalled "crunch time". That you have had to resort to this forum in desperation shows that indeed it is, and I think it is this message you now have to try and get across to him.

I would ask incidentally, if he has ever been diagnosed with depression. It manifests in many ways but often in an inability to shake oneself out of any kind of languor or emotional or physical inactivity. If you think this may be something to do with the current state of affairs encourage him to see his GP and insist on going with him for he will surely not go of his own accord.

No depression. Can't remember the last time OH went to the doctors for anything to be honest.

Today as he walked past he said 'any news on that holiday, how is it going' so he is thinking both of us and is looking forward to it he said. We have been over the marriage on many seperate breaks and for a while he worked abroad and I worked abroad, not for as long as him, so we are used to all of that.

I will ask the questions you ahve given, I can't say I am not nervous of some of them , hoping they will come out less jumbled than last times approach but these things are very hard to pin down.

I am very appreciative of your help, thank you very much.

Primrose

Sunshime . I think you should seriously rethink any joint holiday at this point. From the way things appear to have just ticked over in the same old way in the past you need to break the pattern. If he asks about the holiday again just remind him .."No, its not what I am proposing . I am proposing a break from each other so we can seriously reflect on the state of our marriage. ". You really do need to say and do something that jolts him into taking you seriously and making him sit up and take notice. And you need to follow through. If everything just drifts on in the same pattern as before there is no incentive for the situation to change.

If you can have some time apart and then a serious productive discussion which produces some positive reactions and changes to be implemented , that will be the time for you to consider a holiday together to cement the deal and start putting things Into action together in a pleasurable environment.

If you are nervous of asking the questions, start rehearsing them to yourself privately until they come out come out without being ambiguous or capable of misunderstanding. Imagine yourself in a play rehearsing your lines. That may help you concentrate and not wander away from the topic.

As Marisco has commented your previous discussion seems only to have caused more misunderstandings. So try not to react again until you have thought through your approach in the best way to get his serious attention.

FBaby

I've just read the whole thread and the theme that comes out very strongly is that you feel a very strong need to be heard, listened to and that this will prompt him to act differently in a way that will make you feel better.

What doesn't come across at all is him expressing his feelings and you listening to it. I think that is the problem, it is all one direction.

It is NOT a criticism at all because it is problably his fault in that he is maybe finding opening up very difficult and that might have been engrained in him for a long time. All fine when he doesn't require to do so because all his well, a huge problem when he does need to.

The problem is that it becomes a vicious circle, the less he opens up, the more you want to tell him how you feel so that he can open up, except that this puts him under pressure and he becomes less and less likely to open up.

My OH finds it very hard to open up and the more I challenge him to do so, in every single way you suggested, including calmly and understandibly, the more he withdraws. It has caused us quite some problems in the past, but I now understand that the best way to get him to open up is to just say totally matter of factly what is on my mind, no drama, no 'let's have a discussion', just a 'I've noticed you've seem a bit more withdrawn recently' and nothing more as we take a walk for instance. He will say nothing at all at the time, will most likely divert the discussion into something totally irrelevant and mondaine (which I used to find extremely insulting and made me fell angry). Then hours or maybe even days later, as we are watching TV, commenting on a show, he will suddenly open up. It is so subtle that it takes me a few seconds to realise that he is opening up in his own way. I then have to listen and say little except to show him that I'm totally there for him.

Now that I understand how he communicate such matters, it has become a lot easier and so has he.

My gut feeling reading your post is that he too is feeling quite miserable at the moment, but whereas your way or dealing with it is to try to let it out, in his case, his instinct is to ignore it and pretend it is not happening, although still eating him inside.

jetplane

From your conversation with him I would guess he could hear you talking but he was not listening. He answered your first few questions but did not invite discussion. He then stopped answering until he picked up on the words 'holiday'. Did he mishear you because he was not listening or did he deliberately evade any further discussion by suggesting you book a holiday?

Either way he put the onus straight on to you to book it and even if he has misheard you surely a positive move would be for him to say ok lets plan a holiday together?

I feel your frustration, but I feel if you really are on the point of leaving him you are going to have to be a lot more direct otherwise he might never take you seriously. Tell him he misheard you and you are going away to give yourself time to think.

For me I would first be asking my husband has he noticed any changes in our relationship, (because I believe that some people don't notice how their relationships change). Next I would crank it up a level and be asking why does he not engage or communicate with me, why does he not want sex, I would want to know if he felt differently and what was preoccupying him.

Yes it may cause me to hear things I didn't like but marriage can be hard work sometimes, but if its worth fighting for then I would rather ask some uncomfortable and awkward questions than walk away thinking what if.

OP I forgot to ask how do you usually resolve issues or conflict? Is it habit for things to be brushed over and never really dealt with? If so then maybe you need to change tactics as this situation has lasted 3 years and that is too long for any unresolved issues in a marriage.

sunshime

I have just been having a think about the holiday and how he misunderstood and to be honest from my side it was unexpected so it turned into relief, the whole whatever it was last night could have played out a lot worse as in he said no he did not love me, wants a divorce is very unhappy all of that he never said that instead got cross wires over a holiday and I feel relief, my head says correct him my heart says oh thank God, no way, he does want to go on holiday with me and be with me, that it all could have been a lot worse.

Then last night never made anything better and we are both burying head in sand, then it is all just playing out for another 3 years if no one is speaking the truth, maybe I dodged a bullet but the bullet is coming just postponed, neither happier or wiser, maybe wait until like fbaby says he digests it and then wants to chat about at a later date, holiday being just a stall tactic, marisco is right it has brought up more confusion than answers but then again thinking about it does, it is not easy to figure out, not easy at all.

Jetplane I don't know if he was listening last night, he seemed to be, I have no reason to believe he was not, there was no TV on, it was him and I whether he heard me, time will tell, I am beginning to believe that he did not capture the importance of it as has been said, that is my doing as I never said I was going to leave just what I wanted to change but as it has been pointed out he could be equally unhappy, I have nothing to compare it with because all the other times have been normal, up and down as any marriage , not crisis point.

So if he is equally unhappy but not speaking up and I speak up and get misunderstood so now we are going on a holiday it doesn't bode well for marriage.

What we normally do jetplane is sit and chat about things but there has never been an instance where it has got this critical, the other times are just the usual narks and annoyances that occur with marriages, I feel this is the biggest ever ..

I think I wasted the oportunity last night, from reading here, I should have been more direct, I will have to stop hiding and try again harder, I thought the holiday said to me that he had no reason to believe our marriage was going to end and he wanted to be with me, a person that does not would not say book a holiday would they?

I know I can hear, clutching at straws, just thinking out loud, wish it would go away but can't make it unless I address it, another years of this is not good, I feel like I owe him as he has been good to me, I would not want to hurt him, he is a very great person, maybe we have just lost our way, maybe he is bored who knows, I have no bad things to say about him, I have often thought it must be me, it is all in my head but I know that is a lie, hiding again, it is everywhere you look, the good parts are missing. I know I have not made it up. It is missing.

I am sorry just thinking out loud.

jetplane

Maybe you are over-thinking this, if you feel a holiday together will help you relax and reconnect then give it a try. Although planning it together would be a good start. If you have been married a long time and never had to deal with anything too difficult then maybe neither of you know how to address this situation. I would certainly arrange some counselling for yourself if I was you and I wouldn't expect to fix a long term problem in a short space of time. Counselling can be quite enlightening and doesn't have to be done as a couple.

**Patty**

Can i ask.......do you talk like you type?

my husband.....never uses 2 or 3 words when he can fit at least 30 or 50 in .....and i do *switch off* sometimes (dangerous....i find afterwards what i've agreed to )

I'm not being critical but if you are a *Talker* and he isn't.......That could be where you need to look into alternative communication methods.

sunshime

**Patty** wrote: »

Can i ask.......do you talk like you type?

my husband.....never uses 2 or 3 words when he can fit at least 30 or 50 in .....and i do *switch off* sometimes (dangerous....i find afterwards what i've agreed to )

I'm not being critical but if you are a *Talker* and he isn't.......That could be where you need to look into alternative communication methods.

What kind of alternative communication methods?

I type so far all that is in my head, get it on paper, see if I can help

sunshime

jetplane wrote: »

Maybe you are over-thinking this, if you feel a holiday together will help you relax and reconnect then give it a try. Although planning it together would be a good start. If you have been married a long time and never had to deal with anything too difficult then maybe neither of you know how to address this situation. I would certainly arrange some counselling for yourself if I was you and I wouldn't expect to fix a long term problem in a short space of time. Counselling can be quite enlightening and doesn't have to be done as a couple.

No maybe, yes it is being over thought, started the thread and all I can think of is it, I would feel sorry for my OH now as he will not be able to say or do anything withut it being looked into massively, knowing I have it all at the forefront, he obviously does not so his every word will have a second meaning, sad.

If I was being totally honest the holiday was his misunderstanding but I would be hoping that I got something out of it.

Well yes the usual, birthds, deaths, parents , being in debt, job uncertainty, not now but over the course of the marriage, we have had the usual difficulties. Not so much a one to one us situation.

He is out at the moment playing at his chess evening.