Baptism meeting with father

notanewuser

shegirl wrote: »

What makes you think it's all about fear of death?

I didn't say fear of death. It's the feelings we feel when mourning loved ones that make us wonder what happens next.

It's how religion is likely to have come about thousands of years ago. Following it now may or may not be down to this.

Gloomendoom

notanewuser wrote: »

It's the scientific explanation. Human consciousness is down to chemicals.

Is it? Please explain.

notanewuser

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Is it? Please explain.

In a very basic sense, yes.

Here's plenty of thought about that. You'll perhaps see why I didn't attempt any of these explanations on this thread.

http://www.ted.com/conversations/8051/is_consciousness_a_brain_chemi.html

margaretclare

Well, I don't know. I've followed this thread, and others previously along similar lines, and all I can say is, it makes me very sad.

In the UK we have grown up with a backing of the Christian tradition. It used not to be questioned, and while I strongly support being able to ask questions and get answers, I think we may be losing something of incalculable value.

In the village school I attended - way back! - we didn't have RE as a separate subject. We learned chunks of the King James Bible by heart. I can still recite Ruth's speech to her mother-in-law, and other extracts. That language was the basis for so much of our culture. It became the language in with the Chartists and the early trade union leaders spoke. It resonated immediately with people, even the basically-uneducated. Words and phrases are still part of our ordinary language.

I was baptised and then confirmed. The church in our village was badly-damaged when a Canadian bomber crashed soon after take-off, in the field next to it. It was thought worthwhile to restore the church to its original state. Why should anyone have bothered, if baptism etc is so unimportant and something that can be taken or left?

When I gave birth, I went to church to give thanks. There's a service for this in the CofE old prayer-book. We still use that 17th century prayer-book at 9 am service in our church. The language still resonates with me to this day.

DH, by contrast, never read the King James Bible and didn't grow up with the old prayer book. He was baptised, from his own choice, in his 70th year. I suppose he had no choice either at going through the 'bris' on his 8th day of life? That's a bit more than just a sprinkle of water. And the bar mitzvah when he was 13 - he had no choice about that either.

Yesterday we decided to go and visit a lovely little church we'd been told about. I needed to pray. There is so much in the world today, so much sadness, violence and tragedy and I wanted to pray about it. I find it difficult to pray in our church before the service starts because there is so much social chatter. It's nice that people greet each other, but I need the silence and the stillness. The church we went to was built in 1046 AD. So, for almost 10 centuries, there has been continuous prayer and praise. There's an old font which has been continuously used. DH is very sensitive to what he calls 'aura'. He took some pics: http://!!!!!!!.com/mlyccmg

I love the heritage that we have, but it will only continue if people choose to use it. There is something else that I need to say. Look at what is happening in Syria and Iraq at this moment. Christian communities have been driven out. There are now no Christians in e.g. Mosul, where there have been Christians since Christianity began. So, therefore, there is another militant religion in the world and it is not tolerant towards other beliefs or people with no beliefs. You wouldn't be allowed to be atheist - you have to be of that religion, and to follow it to the required extent. I don't need to spell it out. I just think that our Christian tradition is worth something and should be defended and carried on. I don't believe in hell - I think hell is here among us. I also don't believe in heaven as in the sense of a 'reward for being good'. I hope there is something after this, but I'm by no means sure.

OP, just go along to your parish priest or minister and discuss your concerns. They're human beings and usually very approachable. The vicar of our church used to be a City trader. Our new curate went on a beach to 'pull birds' and says he found God there.

DH believes, because Someone spoke to him when he thought he was dying. 'Not today, my son. Come back with me'. He believes that. Don't question him.

As regards what to wear, the only place nowadays where there is any expectation about what to wear is in churches like the Russian Orthodox (yes, we have one not too far away). They say: if you're going to see Someone special, dress up a little bit, not as if you were going to the beach or the sports field. Women wear skirts below the knee, not trousers. Men don't wear jeans. Women in that church have a sort of lace head-covering which is pretty. For going to church, I always wear a dress or skirt, and a hat. Most people don't.

Just a few random thoughts.

seven-day-weekend

Love the way your husband became a Christian, MC.

My husband also had a Damascus Road experience, an instant conversion, when he was 34. He was baptised in the River Wye (we were in Wales at the time) by the Pastor of our church and his lifelong friend the following day.

Like your husband, he knows what he experienced and even when he was experiencing the darkest of times, he remembered what happened and that little light always shone through.

I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year: “Give me a light that I may tread safely into the unknown.”
And he replied:
“Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the Hand of God. That shall be to you better than light and safer than a known way.”
So I went forth, and finding the Hand of God, trod gladly into the night. And He led me towards the hills and the breaking of day in the lone East.

From Minnie Haskins' poem 'God Knows', Wikipedia extract

notanewuser

margaretclare wrote: »

There is something else that I need to say. Look at what is happening in Syria and Iraq at this moment. Christian communities have been driven out. There are now no Christians in e.g. Mosul, where there have been Christians since Christianity began. So, therefore, there is another militant religion in the world and it is not tolerant towards other beliefs or people with no beliefs. You wouldn't be allowed to be atheist - you have to be of that religion, and to follow it to the required extent. I don't need to spell it out.

Like the Christians did the Pagans and Wicca folk here, you mean? It's easy to gloss over that little bit of our heritage, isn't it?!

onomatopoeia99

jaylee3 wrote: »

Should have known that a thread remotely related to Christianity would go down the route it has. The non believers just love ANY reason to bash Christians don't they?

While against baptism of infants (and this extends to any religious ritual from any faith performed on a child that is not able to give informed consent, not just Christianity) I would absolutely defend the right of anyone to practice any religion of their choice or none, right up to the point they attempt to use a position of authority to impose their choice of faith onto others, including their own children.

As I said earlier in the topic, were I to have children I would try very hard not to steer them towards my own atheist views, but let them make their own choice about what to believe when they are old enough to properly assess the choices and arrive at their own understanding. What I would try to teach them is that irrespective of their religious beliefs they should accept that everyone is different, not to discriminate, and to always be tolerant and understanding.

Gloomendoom

notanewuser wrote: »

Like the Christians did the Pagans and Wicca folk here, you mean? It's easy to gloss over that little bit of our heritage, isn't it?!

Remind me. How long ago was that?

notanewuser

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Remind me. How long ago was that?

What difference does that make?

Mojisola

Gloomendoom wrote: »

Remind me. How long ago was that?

Does it make it okay because it happened a long time ago?

It was only a couple of years ago that a pagan shop opened round here only to have Christians demonstrating outside, writing to the paper and bombarding the local councillors with demands that it was shut down.