EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change

ulaggy

Good luck everyone - I'm closer and closer to forgoing CISAS and heading straight to SCC. Might make a decision at the end of the week!

Mikmonken

barrowvian wrote: »

I called CISAS this morning to follow up. I was basically just told that it's with a lead adjudicator and it "should be decided today" whether or not EE's objection is upheld. Funnily enough, he wouldn't tell me anything else and when when questioned about why I wasn't notified of this objection he said, it's up to the lead adjudicator. I don't really feel I've got any closer and I don't have much faith that I'll hear back today.

I sent a follow up email to OFCOM, they need to get involved in this to pre empt the booting out of cases, and force CISAS to retake any rejected claims.

reading between the lines (and only in my opinion) I expect CISAS to reject our claims on the basis that they involve a previous claim through CISAS (i.e. request to cancel on the basis of price increase) Ulaggy had his claim rejected on this basis. which kind of suggest CISAS have made their mind up to side with EE.

Perhaps the reason it is taking so long is so that they can weave some kind of logic behind the rejection, so by raising concerns to OFCOM we can hopefully get a higher power involved. i'll post my email underneath. It will be up to you as to whether you send it, I am probably on the verge of prejudicing my case given the amount of pestering and e-mailing i've done recently, so I caveat by saying be careful.

Mikmonken

send to: - See previous post for caveat

Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk
info@cisas.org.uk
CC: Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk
Ed.Richards@Ofcom.org.uk
Joel.Taylor@ukmetro.co.uk
Edwin.lane@bbc.co.uk
info@fightmobileincreases.com


Dear Lynn,

Concern Re CISAS Independence

I currently have a case which was accepted by CISAS but have been informed, following my attempts to find out why EE hadn’t submitted a defence, that EE and CISAS appear to breaking the procedure (and the defined rules laid out by CISAS) there to ensure that consumers are guaranteed an INDEPENDENT review at CISAS should a case fall within CISAS’s remit.

I have submitted cases against EE on the following grounds:
That the Change in T&Cs in March 2014 was of Material Detriment to them, and
That all previous price rises applied by EE should be refunded as the price variation clause EE relied on was unfair and therefore unenforceable under the UTCCRs

Following confirmation that CISAS had accepted my case and that EE had until the 3rd September 2014 (11 days), the process has now “stalled” whilst EE have secret talks with CISAS to try and persuade them NOT to take the cases on – you may recall that this is very similar to EEs behaviour in March/April 2013 when T-Mobile imposed a price increase and Ofcom had to step in to advise CISAS that they did have a duty to take the cases on.

To date I have received nothing in writing from CISAS in relation to the stalling of the case or indeed any written update since the 18th August 2014, and all efforts to establish where the process is up to have been instigated by me.

Both of the above complaints clearly fall within the remit of CISAS. In connection with point 1 above in previous cases CISAS themselves have stated:
“I find that:
a. The customer’s claim concerns the application of the company’s Terms and Conditions under which he is provided with a communication service. I am therefore satisfied that it relates to a communication service. I do not consider contractual interpretation to be a complicated issue of law. I am therefore satisfied that I am able to adjudicate on this dispute.”
And on Point 2 Ofcom informed a colleague that on 17th July (in relation to the Ombudsman refusing to take cases regarding Vodafone’s out of bundle price increases Ofcom reference 1-265323635):
“On your second question, I can confirm that the Ombudsman Service can accept complaints relating to GC9 and The UTTCRs as they are within the scope of its scheme” (Ofcoms mis-spelling of UTCCRs)

I cannot give you any guidance as to the grounds EE are seeking to have the cases “dismissed” on as the talks are SECRET (so not an open and independent process?), and my requests for such clarification has lead to me being informed that I can only see these once an adjudicator has made a decision (CISAS FAQ states - A key feature of CISAS is that it is transparent and both parties see everything submitted by the other party and have the opportunity to comment upon it.) If a decision has been made I would in this case only be afforded an opportunity to comment on the adjudicators decisions (CISAS rules state adjudicators decision is final) and therefore the relevance on the impact of any comments on information provided by EE in these secret talks would be moot.

Given the above there is no possible reason for CISAS to entertain any contact what-so-ever from EE other to accept their defence document which within my case is now 4 days over the 10 day response period, and given that the defence deadline has been missed due to EE choosing to object to a claim rather than submit a defence, (you will note from previous cases EE used the defence as a mechanism to suggest that cases fell outside the remit of CISAS, rather than object prior to submitting a defence), I fail to see how the choice EE made in these circumstance could be deemed as exceptional circumstances which would warrant an extension to submit a defence.

The above (and historic instances that you and I (now) are aware of) raise the question as to whether ADR schemes are independent of or “inter dependant” on the industry. I trust Ofcom will intervene to ensure that this corruption of the system is halted and that the fair, open, transparent and independent process can resume.

Regards

ulaggy

"Dear Lynn,

I am concerned that CISAS seem to be full of the proverbial. I would be grateful if you would tell them to stop being complete ***** and do the job they are supposed to do"

jocklatic

barrowvian wrote: »

I called CISAS this morning to follow up. I was basically just told that it's with a lead adjudicator and it "should be decided today" whether or not EE's objection is upheld. Funnily enough, he wouldn't tell me anything else and when when questioned about why I wasn't notified of this objection he said, it's up to the lead adjudicator. I don't really feel I've got any closer and I don't have much faith that I'll hear back today.

As i've not had the promised response from EE on the new case which was due on 03/09 ( like everyone else i assume) i have tried to ring CISAS to ask where my case is up to. I am unable to get past the automated responeses, does anyone have a number for CISAS where you can actually speak to someone in person???

Mikmonken

jocklatic wrote: »

As i've not had the promised response from EE on the new case which was due on 03/09 ( like everyone else i assume) i have tried to ring CISAS to ask where my case is up to. I am unable to get past the automated responeses, does anyone have a number for CISAS where you can actually speak to someone in person???

I've been using this 020 7520 3827 which gets me straight through (although i may have to press 1 to say i've got a code)

jocklatic

Mikmonken wrote: »

I've been using this 020 7520 3827 which gets me straight through (although i may have to press 1 to say i've got a code)

Thanks Mikmonken, i've tried this number again but still unable to speak to anyone as it is all a series of press 1 if you have complained to your provider etc , etc :- going through all options i have still been unable to actually speak to someone :mad: !!!!

barrowvian

Jocklatic ... I had that problem too using the number given on their website.

After fishing through additional info I found this number on the 'Info For Customers' webpage; 0207 520 3814

Like Milkmonken said, you'll need to Press 1 at the first menu to say you've got a reference number.

jocklatic

jocklatic wrote: »

Thanks Mikmonken, i've tried this number again but still unable to speak to anyone as it is all a series of press 1 if you have complained to your provider etc , etc :- going through all options i have still been unable to actually speak to someone :mad: !!!!

Finally found a number to speak to an actual person at CISAS - the number is 020 750 3814 with just 2 options after which you are put through to someone.
I have just come off the phone from CISAS after a very interesting conversation. I spoke to a Miss/Mrs P.B. who was very abrupt & sounded rattled. I merely asked her why i had not had a response to my case which should have had a response by 03/09. Was put on hold,her reply when she came back was that the case was being reviewed by senior managers to see if they could proceed with the case & that i would get a response by the end of the week.I did state that why do senior managers need to 'review' the case when it has ALREADY been accepted!!! I also asked which senior managers were involved & was again put on hold, when she returned she said she was unable to give their names. I told her that if i had missed a 'so called' deadline then my case would have been thrown out so why wasn't EE's? The irate / rattled reply was "i am unable to comment & someone will be in touch with you by the end of the week".
It seems to me that there are most definitely some underhand tactics at work & EE are at their dirty tricks once more :mad:

Mikmonken

jocklatic wrote: »

Finally found a number to speak to an actual person at CISAS - the number is 020 750 3814 with just 2 options after which you are put through to someone.
I have just come off the phone from CISAS after a very interesting conversation. I spoke to a Miss/Mrs P.B. who was very abrupt & sounded rattled. I merely asked her why i had not had a response to my case which should have had a response by 03/09. Was put on hold,her reply when she came back was that the case was being reviewed by senior managers to see if they could proceed with the case & that i would get a response by the end of the week.I did state that why do senior managers need to 'review' the case when it has ALREADY been accepted!!! I also asked which senior managers were involved & was again put on hold, when she returned she said she was unable to give their names. I told her that if i had missed a 'so called' deadline then my case would have been thrown out so why wasn't EE's? The irate / rattled reply was "i am unable to comment & someone will be in touch with you by the end of the week".
It seems to me that there are most definitely some underhand tactics at work & EE are at their dirty tricks once more :mad:

Exactly the same experience we've all had, i'm afraid, my only a dive is to drop a similar email to the one i post earlier to OFCOM.

It's along the same lines as the one RC wrote but from a current claim perspective. my online caveat is. RC and others needed to take this approach previously to get decisions over turned.