EE/Orange/T-Mobile - Reclaim ALL price rises AND cancel contract re T&C change

Mikmonken

claireb1 wrote: »

Thanks Mikmonken do i include the 22 pages to cisas is that what you mean? In e-mail to cisas?

Here's a link to a document containing the content you need for the summary and appendices which are detailed across posts on the first page

http://fightmobileincreases.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/EE-Complete-CISAS-case-Finalv1.docx

RandomCurve

RandomCurve wrote: »

Previous form - YES - will explain later!

@Mikmonken

Sorry to quote myself - bad form I know!

Last March - when T-Mobile applied the wrong RPI rate - CISAS accepted cases, then EE had a "consultation" with CISAS "at the highest levels", and CISAS withdrew from the cases citing that price increases are a business decision and that CISAS can not rule on business decisions.

I (and others to) wrote to Ofcom to ask how it can be right that EE can "lean" on CISAS, and that as by definition EVERYTHING a business does stems from a business decision then CISAS could never take on any cases what-so-ever. This was the ONE TIME that Ofcom were of use as they told CISAS that they did have to accept the cases. There was a 94% success rate in those cases!

Would really like to know what angle EE are trying to lean on CISAS with this time! Last time I was not aware of the rule that you have found - that the customer should see all communications in connection with the case - so we never asked to see anything. It will be interesting to see how CISAS react when you ask for details of the meetings!! No doubt you will also ask how these "secret" communication contribute to a fair, open, and independent process!

Mikmonken

I'll keep you posted it's very interesting though that an independent review mechanism can be influenced by a member body!

What is absolutely clear though is that in the event that my cases now gets thrown out there is a clear breach of the rules.

This could potentially bring the entire industry into question in terms of their actions. It makes me wonder how many cases initially accepted by CISAS have been overturned following direct communication between the defendant and CISAS. FOI requests might be going In soon

Mikmonken

Someone's beaten me too it http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/foi/2013/may/1-233277987_Request_under_t1.pdf

Interesting the responses to this and the clear avoidance. I'll be rephrasing some of these and then using the answers to pin point further questions

Mikmonken

My next case in relation to them suspending my phone will be a tough one as it was clearly a business decision, regardless of the outcome I'm going to submit that once this claim has finished and see what happens it perhaps take it straight to scc but refuse to settle so that I get a ruling?

That shapes what CISAS can and can't take?

Maccadinho25

Ive asked for an update including any communication between CISAS and EE now that my deadline has expired.

Isnt this getting interesting!

Sturgeon_2

RandomCurve wrote: »

Okay the first email to send to EE. I have kept it brief as we will develop the argumenst as we progress, this is partly to give EE some room to come up with excuses which can use to against them to claim compensation

Update the Green text to suit you circumstances and delete the RED text if you do not have a welcome letter (see post #37). Do not delete the rest of point one unless the price variation WAS clearly and adequately drawn to your attention. The Welcome letter is merely documented proof - there is plenty of other evidence we can use too!

Send to:[EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]; [EMAIL="Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk"]Olaf.Swantee@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]

DATE:
Phone Number(s) 07XXX-XXXXXX

Dear Mr Swantee

Price Rise Refunds and Penalty Free Cancellation.

The purpose of this email is twofold

1. To request the all sums taken from my account which are over and above the originally agreed contract price are refunded for any price increase that has been applied to any contract that I have held with EE at any time over the six years. My request is based on my belief that the price variation clause which EE have relied upon would fail the test of fairness under several headings of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations1999 (UTCCRs) the list below is not exhaustive:
1 The price variation clause was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention at point of sale (see attached welcome letter);
2 the price variation clause is not narrowly nor precisely defined
3 due to the constituent elements of the contract an RPI increase cannot be a true reflection of cost increases incurred by EE, and therefore the price increase has been used to suit EEs own needs which is strictly forbidden under the UTCCRs
5 the price clause is discretionary – there is no reason given in the contract as to the circumstances in which a price rise can be applied
6 EE cannot pass the risk burden of inflation to me in a short term contract
7 EE have informed Ofcom that they can predict future cost increase with some certainty - I therefore have no way of knowing what inflationary factors were already taken of account of.

2. Secondly I request that this email is deemed as my 30 day notice period for a Penalty Free contract cancellation following EEs change in T&Cs which was effective 26 March 2014. As the change clearly purports to give EE the right to increase my contract price by a larger amount than was previously the case (Exclusive use of RPI in the new contract rather than lower inflation rates such as CPI as was the case previously) and therefore under both the UTCCRs and Ofcom GC 9.6 I am entitled to cancel my contract penalty free and I request a PAC code is provided by return. I would further point out that I believe the notification received via text of the change in T&Cs is so misleading in its phrasing that the true implication of the change was not clearly and adequately bought to my attention and is evidence of EE not applying the level of duty of care expected from a company of its size and experience and demonstrates a lack of operating in a sprit of Good Faith.

Please refund all sums taken over and above the originally agreed contract price under your price variation clause, and provide a PAC code (Penalty Free) for my use within the next 30 days.


Regards

thanks for your good avdives which help me a lot!:j

Mikmonken

SO here's where I am and the likelihood many others are.

EE have objected to something in relation to the application I have made. CISAS do have an objection policy available to companies which is not articulated or evident anywhere within the rules or procedures made available to the public.

CISAS will not divulge the reason for the objection until the case has been reviewed by "a number" of adjudicators at which point both parties i.e. EE and myself will be informed of the outcome. at which point I am able to comment (we shall see)

How is this possible... well the cases are approved in the first instance by administrators and not adjudicators. This may be a flaw in the system if a company is able to undermine the decision process of CISAS but not really the relevant we are where we are with this.

The unadvertised objection policy, a quick google search showed that in 2012 circa 10% of initially approved claims were subsequently revoked following an objection from the company.

Where do we stand surrounding EE missing the time line for a defence? The objection process doesn't have a timescale so basically EE could have an indefinite period to provide a response as all this timeframe of the objection doesn't count? in effect if they objected on the day they received our claim, they could in effect have 10 days to submit a defence once CISAS finally approve our claims.

So what's next - CISAS will either call or email you today or in the near future to inform on the delay - I would suggest everyone asks for all the info in relation to the case along with timescales, copies of the objection policy.

If you haven't heard by 16:00 give them call they're very efficient 020 7520 3827 but it will show them that you are on the case, I always try to take the approach that these are the people who are on our side so just call to say your concerned you've n to heard anything and would like an update and say you'll call back next week if you haven't heard anything.

What are the grounds that EE could reject our claim?

- Claims for more than a total value of £10,000 including VAT; N/A
Disputes involving a complicated issue of law; N/A
Disputes relating to equipment faults; N/A
Disputes that are the subject of an existing or previous court action or existing or previous valid application made under the Scheme; N/A
Cases where it has been less than eight weeks since the customer first complained to the company (unless the company has agreed in writing that the dispute should be settled through the Scheme); N/A
Cases where it has been longer than twelve months since the customer first complained to the company. CISAS can extend this period in exceptional circumstances if both the customer and the company agree or if, in our opinion, the company has unreasonably delayed handling the complaint. N/A

I've seen comments mooted about it being a business decisions which is on the the CISAS website but not within the rules it states importantly within bold I think is our get out clause if they try this CISAS info for customers -

I have a complaint with a CISAS member, but they say I cannot use CISAS. Why?
If your complaint is about one of the following matters, CISAS cannot deal with it. - Business decisions a company has made on whether or not to provide a product or service, and the terms under which they will provide a product or service.

Every one pf us who is pursuing through CISAS has been referred to CISAS by EE therefore I believe this clause cannot apply as emails from EE state - Should you wish to pursue this additional matter further please refer your complaint to CISAS. - In this statement EE have agreed that CISAS can proceed with the case.

Apparently early next week the adjudicators will have made a decision. the waiting games becomes a tad frustrating!!

Maccadinho25

Absolutely farcical

Mikmonken

Maccadinho25 wrote: »

Absolutely farcical

give them a call to follow up if you haven't already the numbers oboe, it might speed things up a bit if a few people do it.