Verbal agreement child custody - now ex wants more custody?

d4d74

Hi,



(please note all names have been changed they are not real)

I'm looking for some advice, as I feel that the advice I've been given so far leads down an endless tunnel, so I really need some good advice for the sake of my two lovely young girls. If you read all this please give me advice if I have a good case or just accept seeing my children 4 days a month and become a stranger to them over time.


I realise that this is a rather long post but I feel that my ex-partner is poisoning my children and the school with lies, and I feel that no one really cares, and I'll just become another dad that gradually fades in my daughters memories over time. I do not want that. The action by my ex-partner started since I've met a new partner, and my ex-partner has become extremely jealous now of our family. What can I do to stop this rollercoaster ? Some parts of the letter might seem disjointed as I've replaced some parts as its too personal to write here so excuse the information if it doesn't flow very well.


My ex-partner said that she now misses the girls as they now attend school and also clubs, therefore she should have them alternate weekends and Monday-Friday. This would mean my daughters get to see myself and my family 4 days a month !!! What I don't understand is that her nan phoned me a few weeks ago and told me she didn't know about all this solicitor action and was surprised, she said my ex-partner moans when the kids are at home and not at school, and even went on to say that she feels happier when the children are at my house and also safer, but wouldn't give me examples because she knows what her granddaughter is like, if she ever found out that her nan had phoned me behind her back. Anyway...


I received a letter from my ex-partner solicitor on 1st May 2014 regarding ex-partner’s concerns, and I told them I was surprised and disappointed to receive your letter as ex-partner has neither approached me, nor given me any indication of any dissatisfaction with the custody arrangements we amicably agreed in April 2012. Instead she has chosen to go straight to a solicitor and not even talk through it with mediation.


When ex-partner moved out of the family home in October 2012, Rebecca attended school and Hannah was due to start nursery in September 2013. ex-partner was not speaking with her mum when she moved out of the family home, so I offered to look after Hannah while ex-partner worked on the Tuesday morning. Hannah started nursery in September 2013 from 8.50am until 11.50am. Therefore the only change since ex-partner left, is Hannah spends 3 hours in the morning at nursery from Monday to Friday.


Outside of normal school hours the only commitments the children have are; Rebecca attends dancing lessons each Friday after school, and has swimming lessons on a Saturday morning. Both of which are during the period the children are with me. Hannah does not have any further commitments, but this will change as she gets older.


ex-partner is well aware that despite the breakdown of our relationship, I have always considered our children’s welfare first to ensure they are affected as little as possible, by any changes within the family. An essential element of this is to ensure both Rebecca and Hannah continue to enjoy weekly contact with each of us, and our families to maintain as near as possible a normal family life for both of them. The proposals now presented by ex-partner significantly vary the existing arrangements, and do not maintain the regular successful weekly contact with both parents, that ex-partner and I agreed is essential for the benefit of the children.


ex-partner expressed her wish to leave me in Christmas 2011 and after the initial shock we both went to Birmingham Relate in January 2012, to see if we could save our relationship for ourselves and for the sake of our young children. We went for an initial consultation to determine what our problem was, and on the first session we both had to talk and express ourselves to a relationship counsellor. I mentioned that her brother caused problems in our relationship because of the way he would treat me, for example by writing birthday cards with incorrect name or giving everyone a present at Easter, and I would just get a card with my name spelt incorrectly. I felt he was very jealous of what I have achieved and his dad told me to ignore him, but I never proposed to my ex-partner because she put her selfish brother before myself.


For example ex-partner would tell me that her brother insured his car at his dads address in Wales for a lower insurance premium, but ex-partner’s brother lived and worked in Birmingham. When ex-partner asked me to let her brother pick up the children from school, I would object, knowing full well that her brother’s insurance was invalid. ex-partner also told me other worrying things about her brother, so I was naturally protective towards my children’s welfare, which sometimes caused friction in the relationship. I explained this to Birmingham Relate, but they said my reaction was perfectly natural and at the end of the talk the Relate counsellor seemed confused, and asked us what was the problem?, as she said we seemed the best of friends.

Both ex-partner and myself told the counsellor that we didn’t have sex, and she has a low sex drive, mainly since the birth of our youngest. ex-partner then started saying she always had a problem with sex, and that was also the cause of her previous relationship breakdown, which caused friction in the relationship. ex-partner then went on to tell the relationship counsellor about when she was very young, she shared a computer with her mum and ex-partner spied on her mums emails. She told the counsellor that she saw messages and pictures from various men wanting sex with her mum, and she gradually became aware that her mum was swinging with various men including her driving instructor, but kept this to herself and only told her younger brother.


Eventually a few years passed and both her mum and dad sat them both down, and in great sexual detail told them what had been going on, and the fact they were splitting up. They were told their mum wanted a relationship with their dad’s best friend.


The relationship counsellor told us that we don’t need relationship counselling, and ex-partner had been abused by her parents when she was younger. She recommended we saw a psycho sexual therapist to help ex-partner with her problems. I was naturally shocked at all these revelations, I am a family man and come from a very loving family background. I agreed to help ex-partner overcome her problems, so we both attended Psycho Sexual Therapy for many weeks until one night in March 2012 she told me that she did not want to work at the relationship and she wanted to leave. I told ex-partner that I would like her to stay despite all the bad things she had told me, so we had a voice conference between us and my parents who talked to her for a little while. It was still her wish to end the relationship, and I accepted this, but I said that the children mean a lot to me. ex-partner told me that I would have the children in my life, in fact she told me that the children are 60% for me and 40% for her. I was relieved that she recognised the children have a strong bond with me, and I play a large part in their life.


I drafted up a document to see how our separation would work, and I asked her many times if any amendments were needed. She made some changes but agreed to the document. When we saw the Birmingham Relate Psycho Sexual Therapist for the last time, we explained we had agreed to share custody of the children and that ex-partner wanted to leave the family home. We both agreed to have a rewarding relationship with both our girls, in fact we told the Relate therapist we were still going on holiday to Bournemouth in a few weeks for the benefit of the girls. The therapist said that she was glad we had worked things out together and that we had put the children first and not argued over anything.


We went on holiday with our children and we had no arguments, and our daughters had a lovely time by the sea. When we returned from holiday ex-partner applied to Solihull Council for a 3 bedroom house, but was told that she could only request a 2 bedroom flat due to both being girls. She showed me the choices that she had, and most were high rise flats in places like Fordbridge in Solihull. ex-partner told me that her category was the lowest, which I did not understand, but she explained the Council give potential tenants a rating. When she applied for a Council House they recognised ex-partner and the children were in a stable, safe home so she was pretty much last on the list to get a flat quickly, and it could take a year or more to move out. ex-partner then asked me if I would agree if she made up a story about me being violent towards her, so it would help her to move out more quickly and do us both a favour, but I told her in no circumstances would I do that, so she started looking at the private rental housing market.
While ex-partner officially left me in April 2012, she did not move out of the family home until October 2012, mainly because she could not find a house that she liked, and she was a low priority case for Solihull Council Housing. ex-partner worked 16 hours a week, but increased this to include Saturday’s and Sunday’s from 6am until 3pm in April 2012 whilst still living in the family home. Thus the children were under my care at the weekends for 7 months from April 2012 while we both lived together.


Despite the relationship breakdown and Birmingham Relate telling us that we were dealing with our problems very professionally, ex-partner never returned home until about 8pm on a Saturday and Sunday night. Sometimes I would text ex-partner in the afternoon at about 4pm, asking how her day went, and if she was going to come home to see the children before bedtime. I would even offer to pop out for a bit, so she had quality time with the children on their own, but in all cases she replied saying that she was going to the pub nearby with her friend. I will admit I found it rather sad that the children did not see their mummy while she had the chance from 3pm until 7pm every Saturday & Sunday to enjoy their company and put them to bed, but ex-partner chose not to see them even whilst living in the family home.


ex-partner finally found a house that she liked, and asked me to come and view it with her, to make sure that it was okay. This was her choice not mine, but I was happy to give advice, after all despite her leaving me, we were best of friends, and she valued my opinion at the time. The previous private rental house she showed me was not very nice, but this last house was lovely with a large garden and ex-partner liked it too. The only problem was ex-partner needed a guarantor, she did ask me, but I was advised that this is wrong, because she wanted to leave me so she has to find one herself.


ex-partner asked her Dad to be guarantor, but she had not spoken with him much, due to an argument with his new wife, and they were not on speaking terms. ex-partner felt that she could not sit in the same room as her Dad’s wife after an argument at this time. I believe this is the cause of ex-partner’s depression over a period of time, because she loves her Dad dearly, but would not make peace with his wife. When Hannah was born in 2010, I sent ex-partner’s Dad a text letting him know his second grand daughter was born, he was very thankful for this, and hoped that ex-partner would send him some photos of Hannah despite their relationship breakdown due to his wife. Despite the long period where ex-partner lost contact with her Dad, ex-partner’s Dad wanted to be guarantor but it was his wifes home in Wales, and she would somehow find out and be very angry at her Dad, because ex-partner was not on speaking terms with his wife. ex-partner’s Dad pulled out from being guarantor after giving all his details to the estate agent, and ex-partner lost some money because of this. ex-partner told me that her Dad re-imbursed this money because he let her down.


ex-partner then asked her mum to be guarantor and after much persuasion she agreed, but at the last minute ex-partner’s mum pulled out of signing the agreement, and ex-partner went very mad and stopped speaking with her mum. ex-partner’s final option was her brother, and she told me he demanded £550 cash off her and also her log book for her car, then he would agree to do it.


Within a few months she moved into her new rented house in October 2012. I have done things like buy the children the same lampshades and duvets at both houses, so the initial ‘split’was less stressful for our children. I have always been thoughtful of how the children could be affected, before and after we started to live in separate homes. On the other hand ex-partner told me that she was banning her mum from seeing the children ever again. I told her that this was unfair and mental cruelty to the children, because despite what her mum had done in her family in the past, she was always reliable and looked after the children every Wednesday since the children were born, while we both worked.


ex-partner was adamant that her mum would never see the children again, and I heard from ex-partner’s Nan that ex-partner’s mum had been crying down the phone because she missed the children. I had ex-partner’s mum text me asking to see the children, but I told her that I will speak with ex-partner and try and persuade her to let her see the children. As you can see, I have always remained civil and helpful in difficult situations.


ex-partner sent me SMS text messages saying her Nan was visiting her house, and her mum had found out where she lived, and was outside banging on the door. Her Nan was begging ex-partner to open the door but she told her Nan, that if she opened the door she would kick her out as well. Eventually ex-partner made up her disagreement with her mum, but this shows how ex-partner controls the children for her benefit,and does not have the children’s real interest at heart. I have copies of these SMS texts aswell.


ex-partner used to involve me a lot with the children’s welfare during the week, but in the last 7 months she has been more distant.When we were asked to see Hannah’s teacher together I found out that Hannah had not been sleeping properly at her new house with ex-partner’s new partner. I asked ex-partner to involve me more, because Hannah has always slept very well at my house. The teacher told ex-partner she should try and follow my bedroom routine, and ex-partner told me a week later it was working for ex-partner and her new partner. ex-partner told me she had suffered bad nights for 6 months+ so was grateful this new routine was working. ex-partner also told me the children’s new bedrooms have a sliding glass/plastic door which is quite difficult for the children to open, so I offered to get her two new wooden doors, if she gets her new partner to fit them, but she declined this offer. I have always tried to do my best so the children are happy and safe.


In the last 7 months ex-partner has become aggravated and tries to unsettle relations, but you are welcome to look on my mobile phone and read all our conversations. I am always friendly towards her and help her out when needed, despite some of her aggression and mind games towards me.
Rebecca expressed an interest in dancing, so I pay for Rebecca’s dance lessons on a Friday after school, and this has helped Rebecca’s confidence grow, and her school reports reflect this. It’s important for Rebecca to have her dance bag on a Friday and when ex-partner lived nearby I took them to school on the Friday, so taking the dance bag was never a problem. Since ex-partner has moved in with her new partner she lives further away, and ex-partner now takes the children to school on a Friday morning. I have had problems in getting ex-partner to take the dance bag on a Friday morning, and this has upset Rebecca on several occasions. I have been told by SMS text to leave the dance bag outside her new home on a Thursday night on several occasions, even when raining, or to leave it under her car, only to find out the next day when picking up Rebecca from dance ,that ex-partner did not take the dance bag to school in the morning. This means Rebecca has to dance in her school uniform. Rebecca has sometimes burst into tears because she is too hot and her School clothes are wet from sweating. The dance teacher can verify this if needed. I feel that ex-partner tries to cause an argument, but I will not fall for these type of games, but I feel sorry that she needs to do this, as the only person that suffers is Rebecca. ex-partner was not like this when we split up, it has only started happening in the last 7 months or so.


I will always put the children first and always believed that children should have a good relationship with the mother and father, but my ex-partners letter outlines many unreasonable demands, and history has shown that ex-partner does not put the children first. ex-partner has never spoken to me about this, I feel that there are other motives at play here, and she does not have the best interests at heart for our children.
When we were together she showed little interest in the children. I have never begrudged ex-partner but have always tried to understand her actions. I have been lucky in my job, when they were born I worked nights, so I was there during the day to help bring them up, and saw their first steps walking, smiling and I was very involved with their upbringing. When we were together I took my eldest to swimming lessons, and took my youngest aswell, while ex-partner did other things. I have always put the children first, and enjoy taking us all on holiday 3 or 4 times a year to my parents holiday flat when we were together and also when we split up. When we separated I now realise it was in the best interests for myself aswell, due to the way ex-partner conducts herself with her passive-aggressive behaviour.


ex-partner showed no interest in family life because she told me it is ‘boring’ and would rather spend time socialising with some friends at work, and staying out until 4am in the morning, knowing the children were up at 7am. She now lives with the manager from the shop she works at. ex-partner also applied for jobs in March 2012 at Weatherspoons as assistant manager 6 days a week. I agreed I would stay at home to care for our children, as ex-partner wanted to work full time. I realised at this point, she wanted to get away from her children as well. This was all her idea and I realised a long time ago that she would rather be somewhere else other than with her children. I am suspicious of her real motives behind her now wanting our children to see less of their daddy.

I am a proud father and I have no history with Social Services but ex-partner does, which is recorded on Rebecca’s medical records. I have gone into detail about this on another thread, but 5 weeks ago, my parents told me that Rebecca has been worried and talked to them about this incident. I find it rather worrying that Rebecca has started talking about this when it was around 4 years ago, we feel that Rebecca may have been influenced recently to say certain things. I find this rather disturbing and if this process continues, it is clear it will only damage the children. It is sad for Rebecca to be used in this way.


When we did split up, I agreed to pay for all the children’s needs to ensure that they had everything they wanted at home or school. I have recently had disagreements with ex-partner, because we agreed that they should wear Clarks or Startrite shoes while their feet are developing and I would pay for these shoes.


Recently ex-partner bought some £9.99 ShoeZone shoes with plastic soles, which clearly did not fit them and resulted in Hannah falling over in the playground and suffered a large bruise to her head. This kind of behaviour I find difficult to understand, and I feel that sometimes she uses the children to attack me, but its not myself that suffers, its the children. I take them regularly to have their feet measured at Clarks. If they need new shoes they get new ones, and if the fitter recommends waiting a few weeks until they need a new pair then I follow their advice. I have told ex-partner that if she feels left out because we agreed that I would pay for all the children’s needs when she left me, I do not mind alternating between us, when we take the girls for their shoe size measurements and get new shoes if needed. She has told me that she was not bothered, but I am still open to this and willing to give her cash or bank transfer for such items.
Since ex-partner left the family home, I have paid for all the children’s Clarks shoes, trainers, haircuts,boots, all their school uniform, all their school trips, school meals, I’ve taken them to school parties/discos/Christmas fayres, swimming lessons, dance school and I give clothes to ex-partner if she needs any. I have receipts and texts from ex-partner to prove all of this and ParentPay confirms this also. I am a very involved father and I do miss them in the week, but the current arrangement does work, you can see from Rebecca’s school report that she has done well at School, ex-partner has told me in the past that Rebecca and Hannah miss me on the weekdays when ex-partner has them, but unfortunately when a mum and dad split up, and the mum wants to leave, there is no option but for the children to live in two houses.


I believe the children should be considered first and despite their age, their needs considered first and foremost. It would devastate them if they were limited to seeing me for 4 days a month. I miss them dearly during the week and they miss me, but unfortunately my current work hours are 1pm until 9pm.
ex-partner has asked me to let her have the children on special days like for her brothers children’s birthday, and for example her cousins son’s birthday who was born within a few weeks of Hannah. I have always agreed and let them enjoy their parties. ex-partner also asked me if she could have the children for a few hours because her dad was visiting near Christmas and I said yes, and her dad even waived to me from the car. At no other times has she requested the children on the weekend until now.

I believe the current arrangement is less confusing for the children and causes less emotional stress. I collect the children from school on the Friday and take them back to school on a Monday, after which ex-partner picks them up from school and has them until Friday morning for school. I feel that this agreement gives the children a less confusing but rewarding time with both Mummy and Daddy.

Confusedandneedhelp

I will read your full post, as i know the dilemma you face, but before she or you can go to court, you must offer mediation.

Have you done this? It sounds like no.

Also a court will likely give 1-2 evenings a week + alternate weekends, assuming no history of violence etc (which i presume there isnt) so that would be an average of 5-6 'visits' a fortnight.

Sometimes its good to have your own solicitor send a letter. more often mediation works, as these cases can reach £000's and legal aid is done for.

But dont mention this, as if she senses a fight she may make up violent allegations

RAS

Hi

It is a common problems for mothers to feel that they have no down time with their children once they start school if they visit dad every weekend.

On the other hand you can ask for half the school breaks as longer period of contact.

offer medication as this is pretty much a requirmeent in this sort of situation and if hse refuses it does not look good if it goes to court.

clw1

As a parent I feel like weekday mornings / evenings don't give me much quality time with my son as there is lot's of rushing around & he is tired from school so I can see why she wants some weekend time. Perhaps instead of you having them all weekend you could compromise and you collect from school on Fri and return them Sat evening or Sunday morning (swap this round alternate weeks). This would give her some weekend time but also mean you see the children weekly.

Can you collect them from school midweek ? or maybe you could skype midweek to help with contact.

You mention the dance bag - why do you keep this during the week and not drop it off with the children after the weekend ??

Also it might be better to refer to your children as A & B incase your ex reads this.

Good luck - you sound like a very caring dad.

FBaby

I'm with your ex I'm afraid. Looking after the children during the week is the best part of the 'chore' aspect of having children, whilst the week-ends are for the most part the 'fun' aspect of it.

Some parents are happy to have their week-ends free, but those who care and enjoy their kids, they usually want to spend at least some of this time with them.

What is fair and equal is to share both the 'chore' and 'fun' time.

I didn't read it all because personally, i find it way to intrusive and I would strongly recommand you delete most of it. If your ex or someone who knows her finds out about this post, it is not going to help matters for you.

Good luck and hope you come up with an arrangement that suits both of you.

fireyfirenze

sorry I don't have any advice but there is SO much personal information in this post. it's extremely detailed and I agree with Fbaby wholeheartedly, you don't need to provide this amount of information to get advice. it's uncomfortable to read, remember thousands and thousands of people could potentially read this.

rach_k

I wouldn't want to only see my kids during the week - there's not much quality time there once they're at school. I would do as others suggest and ask for alternate weekends with maybe an evening visit (pick them up from school and drop them home after dinner) midweek or on a Friday night when you could keep them up a little later. Or just ask for one weekend day every week, maybe pick up from school on Friday and take them to mum's on Saturday evening. I think you should only get half of the weekend time really, that's the fun time!

whitewing

I think it is fair that mum has them for some weekends too.

I haven't read all your post but am aiming to do so.

meer53

TLDR. Stopped after the first paragraph once i saw the length of the post.

My view is that both parents should share weekend access as weekends are the time for them to spend quality time with the children. Mon to Fri school days are frequently spent doing all the routine stuff and there is very little time to fit in any special treats/days out etc. My ex and i had a flexible approach to this, no solicitors involved, we just decided between ourselves each week, depending on what we were doing. There was no set routine, our daughter liked this as she was never made to stay with either of us if she didn't want to, just because it was my/his weekend.

It worked for us, less stress all round, for everyone.

daisiegg

There is way too much personal information in this post, including names! I really think you should delete most of it and just summarise your point. That may get you more helpful responses too as at present I think very few people will read this to the end at its current length!

silvercar

Please remove your daughter's names from the post. Too great a risk that someone will identify them and therefore you and your family. Established convention is to use DD1 for elder daughter and DD2 for the younger one.