Grant of Confirmation

but_hopeful

Update
I handed in my application to the court today, it was checked all good and paid for. I was told to expect documents middle of next week, a lot sooner than I expected.

A big thanks to the forum, especially @buddy9 thank you very much...

botros

Hello, does anyone have experience of or knowledge about applying for Grant of Confirmation when the deceased has bequeathed a sum to charity in their will. Maybe it's me, but despite the guidance notes mentioning the word "charity" several times they are not explicit as to where the bequest actually effects a) the value of the estate for confirmation, and b) the values for IHT. I'll also say that the will just states "give x amount to charity, and then the rest goes to the surviving spouse"...so that does simplify things.
Maybe it hinges on whether a bequest to charity is a liability or an exemption?
I'm going to assume that it's an exemption and not a liability (but could someone put me right please if that is an incorrect assumption).

Given that assumption, is this correct?

Value for Confirmation:
Box 14: Less other debts and liabilities...I would say the charity bequest would not be mentioned here (but things like an unpaid CC bill, an unpaid invoice, would be)

About the Estate:
(Take my word that the gross value for IHT in this case is the same as gross value for confirmation + some small  foreign assets, i.e. none of the other possible differences mentioned in the notes applies).
Box 24: Net value for IHT...here I would just deduct the likes of unpaid CC bill
Box 25: Net qualifying value for IHT...here I would enter a value of zero...simply because everything is going to the spouse or charity.

So in the end - in this case - the actual amount going to charity is not itemised at all simply because the estate is an  entirely exempted and excepted estate.

Is my interpretation correct?
And would I also be correct that - although funeral costs can be deducted to get the net value for confirmation, they cannot be deducted as a liability to get the net value for IHT?

Another guidance note re. "Net qualifying value for IHT" which I am not sure how to interpret..."To work out the amount of spouse or civil partner, or charity exemption for the purposes of the excepted estates regulations, where there are people entitled to claim legitim, you’ll have to work out the amount of the legitim fund and then adjust the amount which would be payable to the spouse or civil partner or charity if the legitim fund were claimed in full after taking account of any legitim claimed or renounced before the application for Confirmation is made."

Err...what?
In this case there is a surviving spouse and children. So is the above saying that the spouse's exemption is in fact only two thirds of the movable assets (plus 100% of property) as in theory the children are legally entitled to one third  of the movable assets regardless?

So maybe in Box 25: Net qualifying value for IHT I should not simply enter zero?

Or am I - hopefully - overthinking this?

Apologies for the long-winded post.
Many thanks in anticipation of any feedback.

buddy9

botros said:

Hello, does anyone have experience of or knowledge about applying for Grant of Confirmation when the 
So in the end - in this case - the actual amount going to charity is not itemised at all simply because the estate ..........

A bequest to a registered charity has no effect on the value of the estate for confirmation. It is correct that the actual amount going to charity is not itemised. 

Funeral costs are deducted both to get confirmation net value and IHT net value. Box 24 value is often the same as box 15 value.

While children are entitled to ⅓ of the net moveable estate, the children should either claim or renounce. If all renounce, then no effect on NQV and NQV in this case is zero. If claimed then NQV adjusted accordingly. If neither claimed or renounced then it is treated as claimed for reducing the spouse exemption.

botros

Thank you @buddy9 for the swift reply again...and thank you for correcting me re. the funeral expenses.

Is the renouncing of the ⅓ entitlement something that has to be officially documented by the children (and in this case grand children as one of the deceased's children pre-deceased him)?
If so, is there a specific form for that purpose? Or some appropriate wording with relevant signatures? (similar to declining an executor role).
And again, if needed, does that documentation need to accompany the Grant of Conf' application and somehow be referenced from within the GofC application?

Thanks again.

buddy9

There is no requirement to submit a written renunciation and I am sure that many lay executors who administer an estate treat legal rights informally, if at all.

A written renunciation gives some proof as a protection against future claims from descendants.

Here is a form of words that is shown elsewhere online :

I [name and address] with reference to the estate of [relationship] [name and address] who died on [date] hereby renounce and discharge in all time coming my right of legitim in said estate. And I declare this renunciation to be irrevocable.

botros

Thank you so much @buddy9

withfingerscrossed

I am getting ready to submit C1 having spent a lot of time on it with massive help from this forum. I have a number of of points I'd really like to be absolutely certain about: 

1: My father spent his last five weeks in a care home.  The death certificate shows the care home as place of death but usual address as his home address being the same address as in the will.  I intend simply put his home address at box 4 and exclude any mention of the care home address from the C1.  Is that correct??

2. When my mother died 12 years ago my father became sole owner of their modest property.  Then six years ago my father transferred title to 50% of the property to me and my two siblings.  As this gift was made less than 7 years before his death, I have added 50% of the value of the house to the figure at box 15 and enter the higher figure at boxes 23, 24, and 25?  The total figure for confirmation is still less than £200k.

3. I have entered the same figure at boxes 6, 9 and 15?  Is that correct?

4. I have put local branch addresses for bank accounts and included these under Estate in Scotland? Is that acceptable even though sorting codes point to English addresses?

Many thanks for your assistance.

VGL717

What a great forum this is! Using snippets from user experiences and the C3 guidance notes, I
hand-delivered my C1 application to the Sheriff Court on Monday morning and collected my Confirmation and Certificates yesterday lunchtime (including a resubmission when they phoned me to tell me the changes they required), so about 48 hours overall! All this saved me £000s and the Court staff were very helpful and accommodating. 

VGL717

That is Wednesday lunchtime, and looking at date on the certificates, they completed it all the day before. I guess it depends on the Courts workload at the time.

buddy9

withfingerscrossed said:

I am getting ready to submit C1 having spent a lot of time on it with massive help from this forum. I have a number of of points I'd really like to be absolutely certain about: 

1: My father spent his last five weeks in a care home.  The death certificate shows the care home as place of death but usual address as his home address being the same address as in the will.  I intend simply put his home address at box 4 and exclude any mention of the care home address from the C1.  Is that correct??

2. When my mother died 12 years ago my father became sole owner of their modest property.  Then six years ago my father transferred title to 50% of the property to me and my two siblings.  As this gift was made less than 7 years before his death, I have added 50% of the value of the house to the figure at box 15 and enter the higher figure at boxes 23, 24, and 25?  The total figure for confirmation is still less than £200k.

3. I have entered the same figure at boxes 6, 9 and 15?  Is that correct?

4. I have put local branch addresses for bank accounts and included these under Estate in Scotland? Is that acceptable even though sorting codes point to English addresses?

Many thanks for your assistance.

The donation of half the house might be a 'gift with reservation of benefit' unless father paid a market rent in respect of the gifted occupied share or the recipients took up occupation.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/inheritance-tax-manual/ihtm14332

If it does comprise a 'gift with reservation of benefit' then this prevents the estate from being an excepted estate and the estate should be reported to HMRC on form IHT400 before Confirmation can be applied for.

Your address strategy should be appropriate.

50% of the house would be listed in the inventory and therefore the value included in the figure at box 15. Box 6 would be the same as box 15. Which one is box 9?

While non-exempt gifts are normally included in calculating boxes 23, 24, and 25, these boxes are not completed if an IHT 400 is required.

If accounts are branch based in Scotland these can be listed under estate in Scotland?