Bank lost cheque and are denying ever having it.... Desperate and need help!

KILL_BILL

this is like reading a famous five enid blyton novel !!!!!!!!

u704446

... and Timmy ate the missing cheque?

pacontracting

Interesting thread.

A cheque is just an intention to pay. Lloyds can quite legitimately 'lose' a cheque and will just refer the depositor to get the payer to cancel the 'lost' cheque and write another one.

Cheques were designed to allow large transfers of funds without using cash and hence were designed to be 'lost'. Initially cheques were 'bearer' in that they could be paid into any account, but later, due to fraud, were crossed with A/C payee only (the two vertical lines) and so could only be paid into the named account written on the cheque (people used to write 'cash' here for example).

As such, Lloyds would say, sorry, we keyed the cheque in error, and lost it. Please get the original writer to cancel the lost cheque and write another. If you can't find the original owner.... (this is the problem with cheques!).

Cheques don't have to be written on 'bank paper'. It used to be perfectly legit to write a cheque on a blank piece of paper. Banks will no longer accept this but it illustrates the nature of a cheque.

In terms of ownership, the car still belongs to the O/P as no funds have been transferred so the debt is still outstanding. A cheque is an intention to pay only. Until it's fully cleared, no transaction has taken place.

Next steps. Nothing you can do with Lloyds. They made a keying mistake but it's your word against theirs what the contents of that piece of paper (the cheque) were. Second - the car still belongs to you. You need to trace the new keeper and ask them for the money. If the new keeper is registered as such, they will be responsible for any parking tickets, insurance etc (as the registered keeper).

Simple really.

antrobus

pacontracting wrote: »

.....In terms of ownership, the car still belongs to the O/P as no funds have been transferred so the debt is still outstanding.A cheque is an intention to pay only. Until it's fully cleared, no transaction has taken place. ...

Firstly, you contradict yourself, if "no transaction has taken place" how can the debt be "outstanding".

Anyway I'd cite s18 Sale of Goods Act 1979;

Unless a different intention appears, the following are rules for ascertaining the intention of the parties as to the time at which the property in the goods is to pass to the buyer.

Rule 1.—Where there is an unconditional contract for the sale of specific goods in a deliverable state the property in the goods passes to the buyer when the contract is made, and it is immaterial whether the time of payment or the time of delivery, or both, be postponed.

pacontracting

antrobus wrote: »

Firstly, you contradict yourself, if "no transaction has taken place" how can the debt be "outstanding".

Anyway I'd cite s18 Sale of Goods Act 1979;

Unless a different intention appears, the following are rules for ascertaining the intention of the parties as to the time at which the property in the goods is to pass to the buyer.

Rule 1.—Where there is an unconditional contract for the sale of specific goods in a deliverable state the property in the goods passes to the buyer when the contract is made, and it is immaterial whether the time of payment or the time of delivery, or both, be postponed.

I meant 'financial transaction' - in other words, the buyer hasn't been paid even though a cheque was received so the conditions of the contract of sale haven't been met.

S18 Rule 1 doesn't apply as the sale was conditional on payment. The seller waited for the cheques to clear before she released the car - thus a clear condition to the sale was put in place.

Lambert v G & C Finance Corpn. (1963) 107 Sol Jo. 66
Retaining car log book showed an intention that contract was conditional and that property would not pass until the car had been paid for.

An example of an unconditional contract may be where the goods were deliverable and payment was due in 30 days but delivery was now. The property would then transfer to the buyer now but should the buyer not pay in 30 days, they can then be sued (as per S49).

Angrywithlloyds

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

Op did you specify which cheque was cleared when you queried your account balance?

When I first called it was to query the total balance showing in the account, at this stage I was unaware that the cheque was missing.


Why phone at all when the information is on internet banking?

I first called to confirm that the cheques were still clearing as the balance was different to what I had paid in.


If you ask if there are any cheques to clear on my account and they say no they have given you correct information - did you ask whether you had £20k in the account or £30k??
I asked what the total balance was and what had cleared from what was paid in, and when the remaining amount would be cleared.

It should be easy to get a duplicate cheque as long as first cheque has not been presented.

I also notice that you commented on nearly all the posts but mine - perhaps mine hit home and is the truth??

I must have missed your post, I didn't mean to not reply.

Angrywithlloyds

matty_544 wrote: »

has the letter frm the bank arrived yet??

Yes, and a complaint with the fos has been made.

Angrywithlloyds

Goldiegirl wrote: »

No way, and I have worked for banks my whole life!

A lesson learnt.

Angrywithlloyds

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

The problem here is that large cheques are likely to be referred to a ''sales'' sorry personal banker before being processed at the counter.
If the cheques had been processed first the counter reader would have read all of the cheques and a printed receipt issued. In this case it seems that a handwritten receipt was issued.
So if I had a cheque for £10k I would certainly know which bank it was drawn on and the name of the person issuing it.
OP seems not to have much information about this mysterious car buyer.
It could be that the cheque was left on a photocopier, in an interview room or never existed.
If it was me selling a car I would know everything from inside leg measurement to name and address and would get a new cheque for the ''lost'' one.
Personally even if OP goes to Ombudsman she has a 0% of winning - but let her try. The bank will not fork out for this in any way - It is my feeling that OP has been fleeced by a fraudster (and it is not the bank).

Is this the post I have ignored??
If so please ask me the question as I can't find it.
Thanks

katebl

Angrywithlloyds wrote: »

No, I sold my Punto when I finished university.

The bank told me the money was there. I didn't need to know where the buyer lived.

I don't usually post on this sort of thread, but twice in later posts you have said this was the first time you sold a car, yet this ^^^?