should i be worried

bod1467

You're taking it too literally ... POFA can transfer liability from driver to keeper, and the keeper can discharge liability by informing the PPC of who was the driver at the time of the incident. It does not mean that the keeper needed to be with the driver at the time.

Coupon-mad

You're focussing on the wrong thing (yes a keeper can be liable for a parking ticket). You just need to read other ANPR Ltd threads and copy a POPLA appeal. EASY.

lancs-girl

Dear POPLA Assessor,

I am appealing against the parking charge above as I believe I am not liable for the parking charge on the grounds I have stated below.

Non genuine pre-estimate of loss-
The Amount demanded by ANPR LTD on the invoice for £100 is unreasonable and does not amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss and the Notice to Keeper states it is for being parked in an area that should be kept clear. It is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and the amount has increased and decreased since the date the ticket was issued. The estimate must be based upon loss following from a breach of the parking terms. This might be, for example, loss of parking revenue or even loss of retail revenue at a shopping centre. As most of the shops on site were closed at the time as it was on a Sunday of the alleged incident there cant be a great loss incurred. I request ANPR LTD to provide a full breakdown of how these costs are calculated, all these costs must represent a loss resulting from the alleged breach and the pre-estimate of loss must add up to the exact amount demanded. As in previous cases parking company's have included day to day running costs of the business (for example Wages, Uniforms, Signage erection, Installation of cameras, Office Costs, Maintenance Costs) these would of occurred had there been a breach or not and therefore may not be included in this pre-estimate of loss. I am also aware that ANPR LTD may not include the POPLA fee in a pre-estimate of loss.

There was no contract between driver as there was Inadequate signage-
I believe that the signage at the area, especially at the entrance to the area is inadequate for numerous reasons. There is no signage at the entrance to the area in question which makes it impossible for drivers to be aware of any restrictions which means you have to enter the area to see any signs so no contract can be formed between the driver and ANPR LTD. The signs within the area are also difficult for drivers to see or read from inside a car regardless of which side of the road the car is on as it is a small narrow alley way and the signage that is placed is very high in respect to the visible angle especially as no one exited the vehicle in question.

ANPR LTD are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass I would also like ANPR LTD to produce to POPLA the contract between the landowner and themselves and to also include any photographic evidence that the vehicle was parked there at all.

Also on the 00/00/2014 I received an updated letter (final demand) from ANPR LTD stating that the invoice has gone up to £140 and this was while I was waiting for a reply to my first appeal letter to them which got no reply in the end and it was sent 10 days before the final demand letter was sent to me and that's why I would also like to take the time to thank the British Parking Association who had to help me to finally get the POPLA number from ANPR LTD after they had to email them and in the end phone them up to find out what was going on as my letters including the second appeal letter seemed to be being ignored for a great period of time and when I got the POPLA number I also got a letter saying that the amount was £100 as a 40% fee has not been applied yet which confuses me how it can go up and down in price as they see fit.

Coupon-mad

You need some full stops in your final paragraph!

And in this section you could add more and I've change 'would like' to 'require':

ANPR LTD are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass or breach of contract. I require ANPR LTD to produce to POPLA the contract between the landowner and themselves and to also include any photographic evidence that the vehicle was parked there at all. The contract is required (not a site agreement or witness statement) in order to show that ANPR are 'in breach of their contract with the landowner' every time a car parks in breach according to ANPR LTD's strangely-worded signage. I cannot believe this is the case and the contract will show the true nature of the agency agreement, restrictions, money changing hands (if it does), dates, details and whether or not ANPR LTD have been assigned the right to make court claims in their own name and the right to form contracts with drivers in their own name. Failure to show these facts will render the charge unrecoverable since it is not a matter of merely showing that they have a right to put pieces of paper on car windscreens. Any employee or contractor, cleaner, caretaker, etc., could do this of course and simply being 'authorised to issue PCNS' is not the issue I require to be proven. No contractor 'issuing PCNs' and/or putting up signs, automatically has title in the land or assigned rights to enforce PCNs in the courts. I contend that ANPR LTD have no standing and put them to strict proof to the contrary.

lancs-girl

i did some changes just want to make sure this is ok to send please

Dear POPLA Assessor,

I am appealing against the parking charge above as I believe I am not liable for the parking charge on the grounds I have stated below.

Non genuine pre-estimate of loss-
The Amount demanded by ANPR LTD on the invoice for £100 is unreasonable and does not amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss and the Notice to Keeper states it is for being parked in an area that should be kept clear. It is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and the amount has increased and decreased since the date the ticket was issued. The estimate must be based upon loss following from a breach of the parking terms. This might be, for example, loss of parking revenue or even loss of retail revenue at a shopping centre. As most of the shops on site were closed at the time as it was on a Sunday of the alleged incident there cant be a great loss incurred. I request ANPR LTD to provide a full breakdown of how these costs are calculated, all these costs must represent a loss resulting from the alleged breach and the pre-estimate of loss must add up to the exact amount demanded. As in previous cases parking company's have included day to day running costs of the business (for example Wages, Uniforms, Signage erection, Installation of cameras, Office Costs, Maintenance Costs) these would of occurred had there been a breach or not and therefore may not be included in this pre-estimate of loss. I am also aware that ANPR LTD may not include the POPLA fee in a pre-estimate of loss.

There was no contract between driver as there was Inadequate signage-
I believe that the signage at the area, especially at the entrance to the area is inadequate for numerous reasons. There is no signage at the entrance to the area in question which makes it impossible for drivers to be aware of any restrictions which means you have to enter the area to see any signs so no contract can be formed between the driver and ANPR LTD. The signs within the area are also difficult for drivers to see or read from inside a car regardless of which side of the road the car is on as it is a small narrow alley way and the signage that is placed is very high in respect to the visible angle especially as no one exited the vehicle in question.

ANPR LTD are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass or breach of contract. I require ANPR LTD to produce to POPLA the contract between the landowner and themselves and to also include any photographic evidence that the vehicle was parked there at all. The contract is required (not a site agreement or witness statement) in order to show that ANPR are 'in breach of their contract with the landowner' every time a car parks in breach according to ANPR LTD's strangely-worded signage. I cannot believe this is the case and the contract will show the true nature of the agency agreement, restrictions, money changing hands (if it does), dates, details and whether or not ANPR LTD have been assigned the right to make court claims in their own name and the right to form contracts with drivers in their own name. Failure to show these facts will render the charge unrecoverable since it is not a matter of merely showing that they have a right to put pieces of paper on car windscreens. Any employee or contractor, cleaner, caretaker, etc., could do this of course and simply being 'authorised to issue PCNS' is not the issue I require to be proven. No contractor 'issuing PCNs' and/or putting up signs, automatically has title in the land or assigned rights to enforce PCNs in the courts. I contend that ANPR LTD have no standing and put them to strict proof to the contrary.

Also on the 00/00/2014 I received an updated letter (final demand) from ANPR LTD stating that the invoice has gone up to £140. This was while I was waiting for a reply to my first appeal letter which I got no reply to and like wise to my second copy to them. My first appeal letter was sent 10 days before the final demand letter was sent to me and I even received another letter shortly after but no rejection letter with a POPLA code. I would like to take the time to thank the British Parking Association who had to help me to finally get the POPLA number from ANPR LTD. They had to email them and in the end they actually had to phone them up to find out what was going on. When I got the POPLA number I also got a letter saying that the amount was £100 as a 40% fee has not been applied yet which confuses me how it can go up and down in price as they see fit.

is it best to hand write the letter or just print it off and send it in

thanks for the help :-)

Redx

it is best to submit it online on their website (once approved on here) and attach the appeal to your submission , then you get an email response stating it has been lodged as an appeal for popla by london councils

you can also print and sign and send by snail mail if you wish, as a backup , numbering each page with the popla reference

lazydaisy did give details about this in one of her posts (a retired solicitor)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4919594 post #18

lancs-girl

so where do i post it to get it approved. sorry not good on these forums :-)

Coupon-mad

You've posted it here and that's enough, it looks fine to me and ANPR Ltd are very easy to beat at POPLA.

lancs-girl

ok guys and girls i am going to submit my above appeal tomorrow morning on the POPLA site just after i look on here to make sure no one has pointed anything out about it. next time you will see a post of me is when i get the decision back so keep your fingers crossed and i would just like to thank coupon-mad and everyone else for your help me and support me through all this :-)

lancs-girl

i have got a picture today of the entrance to the road and the bent round road sign that says EXCEPT FOR ACCESS which is can not be read when entering area only pedestrians as it is bent right round and the spot where the anpr invoice was given which is right in the middle of the land but no anpr signs are visible at all. should i include the picture or not