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UKPC appeal failed, POPLA next, please help!
Annie1960
Posts: 3,009 Forumite
Hi everyone
My car got a PCN outside Aldi in Hatfield. I searched online, and found this site. I found a template appeal letter which I sent off with the following points:
1. driver was a paying customer at Aldi
2. Charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2. Unclear/non-compliant signage
3. No legal authority/contract
I also went back to Aldi the following day, spoke to the assistant manger who took the ticket and said he would send it to his boss to get it cancelled.
I thought that was the end of it.
I then got the notice to keeper a month later. Went back to Aldi and spoke to the assistant manager again. Discovered Aldi do not own that particular land, and it is not their contract. However, they do spend a lot of time sending up tickets to their HO to be cancelled. I later returned and gave the notice to keeper to the assistant manager who said he would chase up the cancellation. I kept a copy.
Anyway, I have had the result of the appeal today, where my appeal to UKPC failed. They have sent me a POPLA code and I checked through this site to find that it expires on 4 April. So I need to get my appeal in to POPLA.
The appeal I sent to UKPC was very detailed, following wording on this site.
The letter from UKPC states that if I go to appeal I lose the right to a discount - surely this is unfair? The full cost is £90, and discount cost is £50. Interestingly, the notice to keeper does not give any option of a discount, it is just pay the full £90 or else appeal. But the appeal refusal letter again gives the discount option, but states I will lose this if I lose at POPLA.
Another interesting fact is the refusal letter from UKPC is quite long, and presumably is cut and pasted as it refutes arguments I do not think I had in my appeal letter! Looks like they just printed it off without reading it.
They refuse to give information about their losses and mention 'a fixed amount to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract.' They claim their charges are fully enforceable and no not amount to a penalty. Robophone Facilities v Blank means the onus of proving the amount is a 'penalty' is on me, not on them. Does anyone know about this?
They claim their charges are confidential, and will be made available in a redacted for to the independent assessors, and in full if it goes to court.
They also claim all their signage is fully compliant. I went back to have another look, and it is very easy to miss, in my view, especially at the entrance.
The contract they have contains a confidentiality clause, so they will not release it to me.
Finally they tell me I can either pay £50 now, or appeal to POPLA in which case it will be £90. If I do nothing they will add a further £60.
Can anyone help?
My car got a PCN outside Aldi in Hatfield. I searched online, and found this site. I found a template appeal letter which I sent off with the following points:
1. driver was a paying customer at Aldi
2. Charge is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss
2. Unclear/non-compliant signage
3. No legal authority/contract
I also went back to Aldi the following day, spoke to the assistant manger who took the ticket and said he would send it to his boss to get it cancelled.
I thought that was the end of it.
I then got the notice to keeper a month later. Went back to Aldi and spoke to the assistant manager again. Discovered Aldi do not own that particular land, and it is not their contract. However, they do spend a lot of time sending up tickets to their HO to be cancelled. I later returned and gave the notice to keeper to the assistant manager who said he would chase up the cancellation. I kept a copy.
Anyway, I have had the result of the appeal today, where my appeal to UKPC failed. They have sent me a POPLA code and I checked through this site to find that it expires on 4 April. So I need to get my appeal in to POPLA.
The appeal I sent to UKPC was very detailed, following wording on this site.
The letter from UKPC states that if I go to appeal I lose the right to a discount - surely this is unfair? The full cost is £90, and discount cost is £50. Interestingly, the notice to keeper does not give any option of a discount, it is just pay the full £90 or else appeal. But the appeal refusal letter again gives the discount option, but states I will lose this if I lose at POPLA.
Another interesting fact is the refusal letter from UKPC is quite long, and presumably is cut and pasted as it refutes arguments I do not think I had in my appeal letter! Looks like they just printed it off without reading it.
They refuse to give information about their losses and mention 'a fixed amount to be paid by way of damages in the event of a breach of contract.' They claim their charges are fully enforceable and no not amount to a penalty. Robophone Facilities v Blank means the onus of proving the amount is a 'penalty' is on me, not on them. Does anyone know about this?
They claim their charges are confidential, and will be made available in a redacted for to the independent assessors, and in full if it goes to court.
They also claim all their signage is fully compliant. I went back to have another look, and it is very easy to miss, in my view, especially at the entrance.
The contract they have contains a confidentiality clause, so they will not release it to me.
Finally they tell me I can either pay £50 now, or appeal to POPLA in which case it will be £90. If I do nothing they will add a further £60.
Can anyone help?
0
Comments
-
UKPC will of course use cut and paste arguments as do all PPCs.
There are plenty of links to POPLA examples in the NEWBIES thread. Pick one of them and alter it to suit your situation.
FYI, you're looking to have :
1. No Genuine Pre-estimate of Loss
2. Inadequate signage
3. No authority to issue charges over the land in question"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis." - Dante Alighieri0 -
UKPC will of course use cut and paste arguments as do all PPCs.
There are plenty of links to POPLA examples in the NEWBIES thread. Pick one of them and alter it to suit your situation.
FYI, you're looking to have :
1. No Genuine Pre-estimate of Loss
2. Inadequate signage
3. No authority to issue charges over the land in question
Thanks. I'm having a root around the site and have also found something from Parking Prankster which I might use, about failure to comply exactly with everything on the list, so they cannot pursue me as keeper.0 -
'How to win at POPLA' is in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, as a hyperlink, with examples to copy from.
PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Coupon-mad wrote: »'How to win at POPLA' is in post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, as a hyperlink, with examples to copy from.
Thanks, I've been having a look at that.
I'm not sure if I should send a copy of the NTK and the appeal letter I wrote to UKPC with my appeal to POPLA. Any advice on this?0 -
You don't need to. The PPC should include it in their evidence pack to POPLA.
PS - if you send in a well-constructed POPLA appeal (which POPLA give to the PPC anyway) there's a fair chance the PPC won't even contest it. This seems to be a common theme recently. 0 -
You don't need to. The PPC should include it in their evidence pack to POPLA.
PS - if you send in a well-constructed POPLA appeal (which POPLA give to the PPC anyway) there's a fair chance the PPC won't even contest it. This seems to be a common theme recently.
I thought my original appeal to UKPC was well-constructed as I based it on information from this site!
I'll post my POPLA draft here before I send it so anyone with more expertise than I have can comment on it.0 -
UKPC personnel aren't exactly blessed with intelligence and common sense, so they tend to automatically reject an appeal. I'd be surprised if anyone actually even read it.
0 -
Why would they accept your appeal ?
They are scammers that want your money.Be happy...;)0 -
spacey2012 wrote: »Why would they accept your appeal ?
They are scammers that want your money.
From other threads I have read on this site, I understand they have to pay to give me a POPLA code, and, according to this site, the POPLA appeal will win, so if this is true, it is in their interests to accept the appeal if it is valid.
Or maybe I'm being too logical?0 -
Please see my earlier reply, post #8. 0
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