EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

RandomCurve

From Glasgowm148


Case Reference: xxxx
Account Number: xxx

Please respond to [EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Dear Mr Glasgow,

Thank you for your response with regard to the recent notification in the change of Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Your comments are acknowledged. As a company, EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions. Under these circumstances any request from its customers to be released from contract without penalty will be declined and due to this, your request to cancel your agreement without penalty is declined.

Any customer wishing to cancel their contract may do so by providing the relevant 30 days notice period required but they will be held liable for any early termination fee.

The company, EE, have fully complied with the General Conditions set out under Ofcom regulations.

Yours sincerely



Dawne Hauxwell
Executive Office, EE


Try the following - and please copy in [EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]


Dear Mr Swantee,


Thank you for your email of XXX


We appear to have reached deadlock.


EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions, whereas I believe that the change is to my material detriment.


May I remind you that under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCRs), EE cannot give itself the sole right to determine what “Material Detriment” means, therefore you would have been obliged to write to me fully explaining this cancellation right –and you did not!

UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.

May I also remind you that when deadlock has been reached you are obligated to issue a deadlock reference so that the case can be decided on by an adjudicator. Further advice has been sought from Ofcom over what should happen in instances such as this the advice from Ofcom is that where a company makes it clear that they will make no further communication on the matter (as EE have) then under the regulations you HAVE TO ISSUE A DEADLOCK REFERENCE.

Further it appears that if EE does not honour its obligation to issue a deadlock reference then it can face sanctions from Ofcom including a fine of up to 10% of its turnover.

I have copied Ofcom into this email so that they can gauge the extent to which EE is dishonouring its' obligations and respectfully request that EE issue a deadlock reference by return.

RandomCurve

[quote=[Deleted User];64999259]Hi,
I also just received this exact email of "This is the company's final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter." from EE.

So can we now go straight to the CISAS?
Do we need to send another email to the company at #245 of "what material Detriment is to me" before going to CISAS?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.[/QUOTE]


Use the template in my post above at #543

RandomCurve

rachx21 wrote: »

So I received response from cisas today they wont be taking my case any further as I haven't provided a deadlock reference but EE haven't responded to 3 Emails I sent and i also sent a letter through recorded delivery to them so I have proof that they have received it but nothing! Where do I go from here?

Send the email again stating that this is the FOURTH time of writing since DATE, and as yet you have received no response.


The following day send it again stating this is the FIFTH time...


And then again the following day ...ete etc until you receive a response. This will greatly help your chances of receiving some compensation at CISAS as in previous defences EE always state that hey have not breached the duty of care as they have responded promptly in all communications - your emails will be evidence that they have not!


Copy in [EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]

RandomCurve

All


Please copy in ALL correspondence to EE to [EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.Org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.Org.uk[/EMAIL]
Otherwise they think that this is all isolated and will do nothing.


To be honest Ofcom will probably do nothing anyway, but I will be writing to Lynn again shortly and it will GREATLY HELP if she has been copied in to numerous emails from everyone here!


Thanks

RandomCurve

Keverso wrote: »

Hi all,

I finally received this reply

---

Thank you for your email regarding the recent text message you received.

Please be advised the text message sent to you was not sent to notify you of a price increase but to advise you of a change in our network terms and conditions which will be made from 26 March 2014.
As a company we wish to provide clarity on the terms to ensure customers are provided with more certainty and transparency in the event of us making any changes to your price plan. The update in the terms and conditions supports the guidance Ofcom recently issued around fairness in contracts around several issues, including price increase in contract. The change in the terms provides greater clarity on price increase notification, which includes the instances when you as a customer have the right to cancel a contract without charge.
In addition to the above we have signed up to the government's Telecoms Consumer Action Plan which aims to improve the customer experience in a number of areas, including bill transparency and certainty over the lifetime of a contract, in line with the principles of Ofcom's guidance.
I trust the above explains more clearly to you why the text message was sent to you.



Yours sincerely

Executive Office,EE

---

What you people recommend as a suitable reply - I do not recall seeing this response mentioned earlier. You would think EE had one standard reply to send out to these complaints.

Thanks
Kevin.

Try the below and copy in [EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]


Dear Mr Swantee,

Thank you for your response to my email which was sent following EEs notification to a change in EEs Terms and Conditions.

I note with interest that you are at pains to point out that the text received “…was not sent to notify you of a price increase”. I am not sure how that has any relevance as my email to you made no mention of a price increase, can you please explain that reference?

For clarity I have requested that Orange T-Mobile EE cancel my contract without penalty as per clauses 15.1(b) and 4.3.1 2.11.2 and 7.2.3.2 2.11.3 and 7.2.3.2 as I find the change in T&Cs that you have notified me of as unacceptable and consider it to be of Material Detriment.

Can you clarify which Ofcom guidelines EE have followed? And also explain to me what benefit EE receives from having the greater clarity in its price variation clause?


Further as I consider this change to be to my material detriment and as under the UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.


Should EE still be unwilling to comply with our contract and process my request for a penalty free cancellation then please provide me with a deadlock reference so that this matter can go to CISAS




Regards

Keverso

Looks perfect to me. I'll get them sent off today and will copy in the ofcom address as you suggested.

This is starting to get interesting isn't it

Kevin.

glasgowm148

RandomCurve wrote: »

From Glasgcowm148


Case Reference: xxxx
Account Number: xxx

Please respond to [EMAIL="executive.office@ee.co.uk"]executive.office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Dear Mr Glasgow,

Thank you for your response with regard to the recent notification in the change of Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Your comments are acknowledged. As a company, EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions. Under these circumstances any request from its customers to be released from contract without penalty will be declined and due to this, your request to cancel your agreement without penalty is declined.

Any customer wishing to cancel their contract may do so by providing the relevant 30 days notice period required but they will be held liable for any early termination fee.

The company, EE, have fully complied with the General Conditions set out under Ofcom regulations.

Yours sincerely



Dawne Hauxwell
Executive Office, EE


Try the following - and please copy in [EMAIL="Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk"]Lynn.Parker@Ofcom.org.uk[/EMAIL]


Dear Mr Swantee,


Thank you for your email of XXX


We appear to have reached deadlock.


EE does not accept there has been any material detriment due to the recent proposed change in its terms and conditions, whereas I believe that the change is to my material detriment.


May I remind you that under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCRs), EE cannot give itself the sole right to determine what “Material Detriment” means, therefore you would have been obliged to write to me fully explaining this cancellation right –and you did not!

UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.

May I also remind you that when deadlock has been reached you are obligated to issue a deadlock reference so that the case can be decided on by an adjudicator. Further advice has been sought from Ofcom over what should happen in instances such as this the advice from Ofcom is that where a company makes it clear that they will make no further communication on the matter (as EE have) then under the regulations you HAVE TO ISSUE A DEADLOCK REFERENCE.

Further it appears that if EE does not honour its obligation to issue a deadlock reference then it can face sanctions from Ofcom including a fine of up to 10% of its turnover.

I have copied Ofcom into this email so that they can gauge the extent to which EE is dishonouring its' obligations and respectfully request that EE issue a deadlock reference by return.

Thanks so much for taking the time to write that (even though you called me a cow ) , was lost as no one else on the forum appeared to have received the email I had! Sent and CC'd ofcom in.

RandomCurve

glasgowm148 wrote: »

Thanks so much for taking the time to write that (even though you called me a cow ) , was lost as no one else on the forum appeared to have received the email I had! Sent and CC'd ofcom in.

Whoops - Corrected.


Thanks for copying in Lynn

Keverso

Received two (one mine - one for the wife) stating no more contact from them and sent 543s for each of them. That's another two that OFFCOM have copies of. Hope it helps...

rachx21

Thank you for all your help random curve I sent the email again and had this response today I have looked back through the thread and couldnt see a response to this sorry if I have missed it, where shall I go from here I doubt this can be taken as a deadlock?

Thank you for your email regarding the recent text message you received.!

Please be advised the text message sent to you was not sent to notify you of a price increase but to advise you of a change in our network terms and conditions which will be made from26 March 2014.
As a company we wish to provide clarity on the terms to ensure customers are provided with more certainty and transparency in the event of us making any changes to your price plan.! The update in the terms and conditions supports the guidance Ofcom recently issued around fairness in contracts around several issues, including price increase in contract.! The change in the terms provides greater clarity on price increase notification, which includes the instances when you as a customer have the right to cancel a contract without charge.!
In addition to the above we have signed up to the government's Telecoms Consumer Action Plan which aims to improve the customer experience in a number of areas, including bill transparency and certainty over the lifetime of a contract, in line with the principles of Ofcom's guidance.
I trust the above explains more clearly to you why the text message was sent to you.



Yours sincerely

Executive Office,EE