EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

RandomCurve

For anybody who has received the response below I think they should send the email below that. This is just to clarify exactly how "awkward" EE are being and should increase your chances of receiving compensation (win or lose). As long as you have sent the FIRST email and received the response below you can jump straight to the FINAL email before taking this to CISAS. Of course you could go to CISAS now if you prefer,


EEs RESPONSE
Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for response with regard to the recent notification in the change of the Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Please be advised the Universal Service Directive 2003/22/EC you refer to is implemented in the UK through the Telecommunications Act 2003 and via Ofcom's General Conditions. Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for customers to cancel their contract without charge.

This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.


Yours sincerely


Final email to send




Dear Mr Swantee,


Thank you for your email dated X,


Given that EE have changed its T&Cs which directly affects me as a customer I believe I have a legitimate expectation to be informed of the following so that I can take the appropriate action:


You have stated that “The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment” Therefore I believe I have a legitimate expectation to know what criteria you have used and which of my personal circumstances have been taken into consideration when you reach this conclusion, especially considering that under the UTCCRs EE cannot have exclusive right to determine what is of material Detriment me:


UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.)


On your website the reason for the change is cited as “We’ve clarified our terms to offer customers more certainty and transparency in the event of us making any changes to your price plan charge.” Again I believe I have a legitimate expectation to be informed of what Ofcom guidance (document name/reference) prompted this change? And what the legal effect is on me by having terms “with more certainty and transparency”


As you have stated in response to my email DATED X that “This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.”, Then If I have not had a response from you within a week of this email being sent, I will take the non-response as your refusal to engage in a legitimate debate over this change.


For your information I have already contacted CISAS who have confirmed that the statement “This is the companies final position” can be used in lieu of the issuing of a deadlock reference therefore if I have not heard from you within a week I will bring a case to you via CISAS.



Regards

SimonD316

RandomCurve wrote: »

For anybody who has received the response below I think they should send the email below that. This is just to clarify exactly how "awkward" EE are being and should increase your chances of receiving compensation (win or lose). As long as you have sent the FIRST email and received the response below you can jump straight to the FINAL email before taking this to CISAS. Of course you could go to CISAS now if you prefer,

Thanks for all the advice so far. I've already sent a very similar 'Final' email saying I've contacted CISAS... No response since Friday, so I'm now thinking it's time to go to them. Do you have any tips for the CISAS forms?

Tigerrock

RandomCurve wrote: »

For anybody who has received the response below I think they should send the email below that.

Hi Random. Whats the best way to proceed if EE are not responding to emails or letters? Its been two plus weeks since sending first email and im yet to receive a reply. I have been refused a deadlock letter over the phone and unsure if it would be sufficient to take the case to CISA without any written communications

Thanks

Sunnyhaze

RandomCurve wrote: »

That's right fro T-Mobile customers and Orange customers on the latest contracts.


7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is: (i) an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the retail price index (also calculated as a percentage) or any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date on which We send You Written Notice

Is it right for EE customers? I thought it was as in my terms and conditions it says the same thing. The terms and conditions booklet is also branded EE. Can you confirm? I don't want mess up or anything.

RandomCurve

Tigerrock wrote: »

Hi Random. Whats the best way to proceed if EE are not responding to emails or letters? Its been two plus weeks since sending first email and im yet to receive a reply. I have been refused a deadlock letter over the phone and unsure if it would be sufficient to take the case to CISA without any written communications

Thanks

Re send the first email and head up in the email title "Letter Before Action" (that is the recommended "legal" form of words to use before taking action at the small Claims Court so hopefully it will grab their attention).


If they still do not respond then send the email at post #223, but tailor it to say you wanted to know...(criteria used etc) rather than referring to a non existent email. If still no response to that phone CISAS and ask them if you can start a claim if EE refuse to respond at all to your correspondence.

RandomCurve

Sunnyhaze wrote: »

Is it right for EE customers? I thought it was as in my terms and conditions it says the same thing. The terms and conditions booklet is also branded EE. Can you confirm? I don't want mess up or anything.

I don't know what the EE original price variation clause says (I can't find it on the EE website). If you can confirm that the clause I quoted for the newer Orange and TM contracts is the one in the EE contract - then yes the argument is the same.

Sunnyhaze

RandomCurve wrote: »

I don't know what the EE original price variation clause says (I can't find it on the EE website). If you can confirm that the clause I quoted for the newer Orange and TM contracts is the one in the EE contract - then yes the argument is the same.

Reading from the terms and conditions I have here

7.2.3.3

The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is: (i) an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the retail price index (also calculated as a percentage) or any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date on which We send You Written Notice; and (ii) You give Us Notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.

RandomCurve

Some background for those on contracts taken out after 30th October 2012 for Orange and T-Mobile customers and all EE customers if your price variation clause reads as follows:

“7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is: (i) an
increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in
the retail price index (also calculated as a percentage) or any other statistical
measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish
measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as
reasonably possible before the date on which We send You Written Notice”

The Office of National Statistics (ONS) publish the Consumer Price Index (CPI) as a statistical measure of inflation which the ONS confirm is a National statistic (and is now used by Government as a replacement for RPI). The RPI is a discredited statistic which is no longer classed as a National Statistic as it does not comply with internationally agreed calculation methodologies. The difference in the way RPI and CPI are calculated seems to consistently result in CPI being LOWER than RPI. In your current contract EE would have to use the lower figure, but the change in T&Cs will give them the right to use the higher RPI figure. As CPI is the OFFICIAL measure of inflation then an RPI increase would be a REAL TERMS increase and that is of material detriment to you.
Some example RPI v CPI rates
Jan 13 CPI 2.7% (RPI 3.3%),
Feb 13 CPI 2.8% (RPI 3.2%) and
Oct 13 CPI 2.2% (RPI 2.6%)

Below is the link to ONS showing the February 2013 inflation rates it also includes the following:
• While ONS will continue to publish the RPI every month, its designation
as a National Statistic has been cancelled. Please see background note 1 for
more details.
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/cpi/consumer-price-indices/february-2013/stb---consumer-price-indices---february-2013.html

You need to ensure that everyone you know who is on one of these contracts sends Email 1 to EE immediately.
For those on the other contracts there are also reasons why should be able to cancel penalty free as well so you also need to send the 1st email if you have not already done so (one contract (Orange) says "detriment" not "material detriment", and the other we can show even T-mobile implemented the wrong rate TWICE).

DON’T DELAY

CANCEL TODAY

RandomCurve

Sunnyhaze wrote: »

Reading from the terms and conditions I have here

7.2.3.3

The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is: (i) an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the retail price index (also calculated as a percentage) or any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date on which We send You Written Notice; and (ii) You give Us Notice to immediately cancel this Agreement before the change takes effect.

Yep - that is great, this should be the easiest T&Cs on which to win the case, closely followed by the original Orange contracts where you only have to prove "detriment" and the hardest will be the T-Mobile pre October 30 2012 (V58).

RandomCurve

SimonD316 wrote: »

Thanks for all the advice so far. I've already sent a very similar 'Final' email saying I've contacted CISAS... No response since Friday, so I'm now thinking it's time to go to them. Do you have any tips for the CISAS forms?

I do but I have not had time to put it "down on paper" I'll try and get something by the end of the weekend -or soon after.


Basically it will be what has already been said on the forum plus the UTCCRs (can't remember the clause number off hand) that states that if a term is ambiguous (e.g. how on Earth do you define Material Detriment in relation to a change in T&Cs) then it is the interpretation MOST FAVOURABLE TO THE CONSUMER which should be used!