EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

nsabournemouth

sshariff wrote: »

Hi,

Can you please explain if the USD is applicable in the UK and if we can take this to a small claims court solely based on USD? I am a bit confused as the USD directive is since 2002 whereas ofcom specifically state that under certain conditions providers can actually change the terms and conditions as long as it is not a "material detriment" (http://ask.ofcom.org.uk/help/services-and-billing/conchange).

EE are using this in their second email response that it is the ofcom condition that is applicable to them in the UK (not the USD).

CISAS state that they cannot interpret legalities of terms and conditions in contracts and therefore cannot make decisions in this regards so I believe in the end I will need to file a small claims in court. Just need to make sure I get all the facts right in my case against EE.

Thanks

It is applicable, Ofcom even refer to it as being part of their own guidelines on the matter.

http://media.ofcom.org.uk/2013/10/23/protection-for-consumers-against-mid-contract-price-rises/

Scroll to the bottom, point 5 on the note to editors bit.

You'll also find it here under background.

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/consultations/price-rises-fixed-contracts/statement

andrewmp

RandomCurve wrote: »

Was this a response to email 3 or 4?

That was in response to mail 2.

That's why I'm stuck, they say they won't communicate anymore, do I have to send mail 3 now?

Wallace231

Hi,

I sent third email on the 16/02,still no response from EE..

Called 150 they said i should wait another 48hrs for a reply,it's been 8 days now, what should be my next move ?

thank you.

BananaPilot

Just got the standard fob off email from EE, only after sending a chase-up from my first email to them.

Have now registered an application with the CISAS.

rachx21

Just got off the phone to cisas they advised me to contact EE through letter asking for a deadlock reference, does anyone know the postal address for EE so I can make sure I have sent it to the right place, thank you in advance

50Twuncle

EE won't even respond to non-account related questions - such as why are they trying to charge me over £20 for a simple unlocking code for my Samsung phone and why do they take 2 months to obtain it - that I can get for less than £5 elsewhere !!
Email to [EMAIL="Executive.Office@ee.co.uk"]Executive.Office@ee.co.uk[/EMAIL] read - no response !
Plus I asked them - why I am unable to select the £5 discount in my on-line account.


I made it clear - that I intended to leave them in 3 months time - when my 2 years are up - unless they provided me with a reason to stay !!


Response - ZERO - So I will be looking for another provider
What a stupid way to run a business !!

Sunnyhaze

sshariff wrote: »

I just got a response to the 4th email I sent EE and guess what - It is the exact same response to my 2nd email which has already been posted on this forum by other members! I think that they have gone mad and probably they have been instructed to simply send out the below email as a standard response specifying their final position.

One thing that I noticed is that for every response the case number keeps changing - have others noticed the same? Probably they are simply copying and pasting earlier responses to everyone emailing on this very subject irrespective of the sequence of the email that we sent out! Absolutely pathetic!

Below is the response.

Case Reference: xxxx
Account Number: xxxx

Dear Mr xxxx,

Thank you for response with regard to the recent notification in the change of the Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Please be advised the Universal Service Directive 2003/22/EC you refer to is implemented in the UK through the Telecommunications Act 2003 and via Ofcom's General Conditions. Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for customers to cancel their contract without charge.

This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.

Yours sincerely

Executive Office,EE

I got the above quoted response to my first email. I then sent the second email on post 116 which was

Dear Mr Swantee


Thank you for your email dated XXXX


I notice that you now accept that “Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment.” That is exactly the basis on which I originally requested a penalty free cancellation (quote from my original email) “I find the change unacceptable and consider it to be of Material Detriment”.


You then go on to assert “The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment.”, however to my knowledge under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCRs), EE cannot give itself the sole right to determine what “Material Determent” means, therefore you would have been obliged to write to me fully explaining this cancellation right –and you did not!
UTCCRs Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of:

(m) giving the seller or supplier the right to determine whether the goods or services supplied are in conformity with the contract, or giving him the exclusive right to interpret any term of the contract.


Given you have taken it upon yourself (in contravention of Schedule 2, paragraph 1 (m) of the UTCCRs) to give yourself the exclusive right to interpret what is of Material Detriment to me, can you please clearly explain what criteria you have used and which of my personal circumstances have been taken into consideration when you reach this conclusion?

I still contend that this change is/likely to be of material detriment to me and request that you terminate my contract penalty free as per our contract and as per GC 9.6 and USD 2002/22/EC.

Please can you also explain what "... it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter" actually means?


Regards

They have replied with this

Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you for response with regard to the recent notification in the change of the Terms and Conditions of your agreement.

Please be advised the Universal Service Directive 2003/22/EC you refer to is implemented in the UK through the Telecommunications Act 2003 and via Ofcom's General Conditions. Under General Condition GC9.6 a customer has the right to cancel its contract without paying a cancellation charge but only where the change is likely to be to the customer's material detriment. The notice we have issued to our customers is not a notice whereby the change is of material detriment, as such there is no entitlement for customers to cancel their contract without charge.

This is the companies final position and it refers the right not to enter into any further discussion with regard to this matter.


Yours sincerely

Executive Office,EE
NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER
This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the above-named person(s). If you are not the intended recipient, notify the sender immediately, delete this email from your system and do not disclose or use for any purpose.

We may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. We have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, but it remains your responsibility to ensure that viruses do not adversely affect you.

EE Limited
Registered in England and Wales
Company Registered Number: 02382161
Registered Office Address: Trident Place, Mosquito Way, Hatfield, Hertfordshire, AL10 9BW

It doesn't even look like they read my reply as it is exactly the same as the first reply I had, word for word, including grammar mistakes.

I also called today to see if the changes would apply to my other lines I have with EE and the woman on the phone said yes. So I have sent the office an email asking for confirmation and then I will include those too.

I also received my application pack this morning from CISAS. I just need to get a deadlock letter now which I will email for when I receive confirmation for my additional lines.

Should I tell EE that I am taking it to CISAS? And does anyone have a guide to filling in the application for CISAS, what is the best way to explain this material detriment?

I understand it as removing other statistical measures of inflation from the terms and conditions that would allow EE to increase my price plan using only one and the usually highest measure of inflation, which would benefit EE and be of material detriment to me, the customer. Would this be correct?

RandomCurve

sshariff wrote: »

The email that I quoted is the EE response to the 2nd email that we send them. There are a further 2 more emails that we send out! This means that I got the very same response from EE that I quoted twice! I don't think that they are actually reading our emails anymore and are just sending the same response based on the content of the email!

thanks - so I think that confirms EE have gone into a "standard reply what ever the letter" mode.


So I have drafted an email that anybody who has received the standard response can use, I shalll post it shortly

RandomCurve

naf123 wrote: »

I have two phone numbers which are linked on same account so I wrote the first email requesting cancellation like this

"Dear Mr Swantee

Phone Numbers 0xxxxxx and 0xxxxxxxx

Please accept this email as my notice to terminate my contract with Orange as per clauses 15.1(b) and 4.3.1 following EEs recent communication to me regarding a change to my Terms and Conditions........"

I sent it on Thursday, still haven't got reply, but wanted to double check with you guys if this is OK or should I have sent off separate emails?

Thanks

Your original letter should cover both

RandomCurve

Sunnyhaze wrote: »

I understand it as removing other statistical measures of inflation from the terms and conditions that would allow EE to increase my price plan using only one and the usually highest measure of inflation, which would benefit EE and be of material detriment to me, the customer. Would this be correct?

That's right for T-Mobile customers and Orange customers on the latest contracts.


7.2.3.3. The change that We gave You Written Notice of in point 7.1.4 is: (i) an increase in Your Price Plan Charge (as a percentage) higher than any increase in the retail price index (also calculated as a percentage) or any other statistical measure of inflation published by any government body authorised to publish measures of inflation from time to time, and published on a date as close as reasonably possible before the date on which We send You Written Notice