EE.T-Mob.Orange. Change T&C From 26th March 2014

RandomCurve

I have added the below to all CISAS claim and EE Defence response templates (except Orange Pre 30th Oct 2012) in the hope of nudging M. Coombes Davies in the right direction should anybody be unfortunate enough to have her assigned to their case, it hopefully will not "offend" other adjudicators.




"I entered into my contract on DATE, at that time EE never made it clear that the contract contained a price variation clause; despite this I have abided by the Contract Terms and Conditions and relevant Ofcom regulation. In early February 2014 EE advised me of a change in T&Cs which I believe is LIKELY to be to my Material Detriment. Under the T&Cs and Ofcom Regulation 9.6 the ONLY options for me now are to either accept the change or request a penalty free cancellation. I have decided that - for the reasons stated - the change is LIKELY to be of material detriment, and I wish EE to abide by the contract terms and Ofcom regulations (as I have) and grant a penalty free cancellation.
This case revolves solely around if the change in T&Cs is LIKELY to be of Material Detriment."


I think I will also contact Ofcom - not that they will do anything, but they can't then say they had no ideas how low the legal skills of some of the adjudicators are!

RandomCurve

Sunnyhaze wrote: »

I wonder if it is possible not to use the PAC and to ask EE to stay on the network as a PAYG customer.

I've done this on a different network but you will have to:
Use the PAC on another network (3, Tesco, O2 etc) on a 1 month rolling contract, then after a month request a PAC code and take the PAC code to EE,


A bit of a faff, but it works, I've done it before and am in the middle of doing it again - moving my Sons from Three TO Three via Tesco!!!

RandomCurve

@ Toho123


Don't give them the phone back. If they have not supplied the service (4G coverage) as per the agreed contract then you can cancel the contract - the handset has nothing to do with EE once they have sent it to you.

Nodding_Donkey

Sunnyhaze wrote: »

I wonder if it is possible not to use the PAC and to ask EE to stay on the network as a PAYG customer.

Why on earth would you want to stay with EE?

RandomCurve

Maddy2k11 - I would like to send the below to Ofcom and copy in CISAS - would that be okay? Would it helpful if several of us sent it?




Dear Lynn,


I know Ofcom cannot get involved in the below, but I feel Ofcom should be aware of the poor standard of some of the adjudicators at CISAS (there seems to be no mechanism anywhere for logging this, please advise if there is a formal mechanism).


Regarding EEs change in T&Cs, of the 16 cases I am aware of to date 13 have won (i,e the change in T&Cs was likely to be of Material Detriment – so EE have not complied with GC 9.6), and 3 cases have been lost.


Of the 3 lost cases, 2 have logical and reasoned explanations of how the decision was arrived at, and there are no issues with this - the case will simply be pursued via Small Claims. The third case however is very worrying.




Background:
Under GC 9.6 the remedy available to a customer if a change in T&Cs is likely to be of Material detriment is a penalty free cancellation, and this is what the customer had argued, there is no option (for the customer or EE (except by mutual agreement) to leave the terms unchanged).


The adjudicator can only rule on the facts as presented – they should not bring other considerations into the process.


Anything that has yet to happen can only ever be theoretical.


The Ruling:
The adjudicator ruled against the consumer – without actually making a determination as to whether or not the change was likely to be of Material detriment had occurred - and the following are quotes from the decision:


“The customer’s arguments are [ONE] undermined in that he is does not seek to maintain the existing terms of the contract so that he would not be disadvantaged in the future (which he in any cases argues are unenforceable). [TWO] This raises the question as to why the customer entered the contract freely and willingly in the first place. Instead he seeks financial compensation and wishes to leave his contract without early termination charges being applied by the company. [THREE]I find the claims of the customer to be based on theoretical arguments of circumstances that may or may not happen in the future rather than on any real dispute whereby the customer has suffered or lost through real circumstances.

c. Overall I consider that the arguments presented by the customer are little more than opinions which are insufficiently supported by evidence. On that basis I find the claim fails




I have underlined the points of the adjudicator’s conclusion that clearly show:
ONE - the adjudicator has shown that they do not understand the remedies available under GC 9.6,
TWO - they have introduced irrelevant factors into the decision (a person’s motivate for entering into a contract has no bearing on of the change in T&Cs that EE have introduced is of Material Detriment or not)
THREE – The adjudicators are paid to weigh up the factors of theoretical and future situations to reach a logical conclusion.


The reasoning (rather than the actuals decision) brings the whole ADR process into disrepute, and appears to indicate that some adjudicators have a natural bias towards the CPs (on the facts presented the adjudicator could just as easily have said that EE had not offered the customer an opportunity to stay on the same terms which indicates the company stands to gain from the change, and is of material detriment to the customer).


Any advice on where a complaint against an adjudicator could be taken will be much appreciated.




Regards

toho123

Thanks for reply. You were right and they let me keep the phone in the end! Good bye EE!

Pilotmic

I only received information of the price increase last week, so I'm new to this party. Read through most of what I can so far and sent template to Mr Swantee twice without any response. Contract is pre Oct '12. Not sure what to do without getting a reply and a deadlocked letter. Any advice?

Nodding_Donkey

Did you respond to the change in t&cs text?

If you didn't you need this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4818999

50Twuncle

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

Why on earth would you want to stay with EE?

I agree - makes no sense !!

tateman

I'm considering staying simply as its the best signal in my area, Vodafone doesn't do 3G, there is no o2 signal at work and Three is patchy indoors. I know there are various smaller operators who use EE but I find their data packages aren't great.