Leaving HL without transfer charges

masonic

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Digressing slightly and i'll admit to not being fully up to speed on this, but isnt it the case that from July 1st ,the new NISA comes into play so if for eg you had s&s ISA, you could liquidate it,transfer it as cash then rebuy? I wonder how such transfers will be handled by platforms when the NISA arrives?

It would be much simpler than the in specie transfers that are causing such grief - I expect it will be the same as a cash S&S to S&S ISA transfer. People were reporting S&S ISA transfers in cash being completed in 2-3 weeks.

malfesto

2shy wrote: »

I received a letter from II at the weekend regarding my formal complaint regarding the time taken to complete the transfer.
Basically II blame HL and HL blame II.

According to II
"We received notification of your transfer on 24th February 2014. We wrote to HL and requested a valuation of your account on 13th March. The valuation was received on 1st April and we issued a letter of acceptance the following day. This was most recently chased by our transfer team on 10th June."

Which doesnt tie up with the information I received from HL.

"We sent a valuation to Interactive Investor on 4 March 2014. We are yet to receive confirmation from Interactive Investor that they can accept the holdings. "

So either HL or II are telling porkies...

I received a secure message from II back on 25th April apologising for the length of time the transfer was taking but assured me it was HL fault. I questioned HL on this who assured me they had sent the valuation on 4th March. My reply to II started the formal complaint which they said they would answer in 4 weeks. They sent a letter after the 4 weeks apologising, but they still didnt have an answer to my formal complaint. Which came within the 8 week FOS limit.

I really dont trust either side of the story.

II offical answer is they are unable to uphold my complaint as there are matters outwith their control. i.e. HL.
They state that prior to the RDR transfers took on average 8 weeks. that number is now on average across the industry is around 12 weeks. Yet here I sit at 16 weeks.

That said, the latest round of pushing / complaining has seen my funds from HL no longer showing, and one now shows over at II.
Maybe we are actually getting somewhere.

Something really needs to be done across the industry to speed these transfers up.

From the FCA’s Conduct of Business Sourcebook under Rule 6.1G (Re-registration of title to retail investment products)

6.1G.1 If a client requests a firm (F) to transfer the title to a retail investment product which is held by F directly, or indirectly through a third party, on that client's behalf to another person (P), and F may lawfully transfer the title to that retail investment product to P, F must execute the client's request within a reasonable time and in an efficient manner.

Given the above, you are justified to make a referral to FOS for potential breach of regulatory rules if the complaint response from both organisations is inadequate.

Additionally, a private person can take an authorised firm to court for contravention of regulatory rules (in any FCA business standard sourcebook/manuals) under the rights of action for damages (for any loss incurred). This little known statutory right is provided by Section 138D (previously Section 150) of the Financial Services & Markets Act 2000.

You can make a Section 7 request (i.e subject access request) under the Data Protection Act 1998 to gather evidence ahead of any potential FOS referral or court action (shouldn’t cost more than £10 per request). The Information Commissioner’s Office website has guides on how to make a Section 7 request.

Regards,

malfesto.

lejog2003

C_Mababejive wrote: »

Digressing slightly and i'll admit to not being fully up to speed on this, but isnt it the case that from July 1st ,the new NISA comes into play so if for eg you had s&s ISA, you could liquidate it,transfer it as cash then rebuy? I wonder how such transfers will be handled by platforms when the NISA arrives?

I thought from what was said at the time of the budget that the NISA was just a new name for an ISA, no transfers necessary your stocks and shares ISA just becomes a stocks and shares NISA with new rules.

lejog2003

malfesto wrote: »

From the FCA’s Conduct of Business Sourcebook under Rule 6.1G (Re-registration of title to retail investment products)

6.1G.1 If a client requests a firm (F) to transfer the title to a retail investment product which is held by F directly, or indirectly through a third party, on that client's behalf to another person (P), and F may lawfully transfer the title to that retail investment product to P, F must execute the client's request within a reasonable time and in an efficient manner.

Given the above, you are justified to make a referral to FOS for potential breach of regulatory rules if the complaint response from both organisations is inadequate.

Additionally, a private person can take an authorised firm to court for contravention of regulatory rules (in any FCA business standard sourcebook/manuals) under the rights of action for damages (for any loss incurred). This little known statutory right is provided by Section 138D (previously Section 150) of the Financial Services & Markets Act 2000.

You can make a Section 7 request (i.e subject access request) under the Data Protection Act 1998 to gather evidence ahead of any potential FOS referral or court action (shouldn’t cost more than £10 per request). The Information Commissioner’s Office website has guides on how to make a Section 7 request.

Regards,

malfesto.

Thats a really interesting post, but does the regulation actually justify a complaint to both (F) and (P) - it looks to me that your bold clause lays the responsibility solely on (F). This is in line with what I'd expect of legal principles. While most of the posts on this forum have naturally been blaming the platform managers, a lot of the problems are obviously down to the funds managers as funds disappear for several weeks between leaving (F) and arriving at (P).

However investors have no direct commercial relationship with the funds manager - (F) and (P) are responsible for "managing" the funds manager on your behalf. You've agreed ts&cs with the platforms, not the funds managers. Until (P) actually receives the reregistration they have no power to act on your behalf - its up to (F) to "manage" the funds manager until the reregistration to (P) is complete.

I really strongly urge anyone who receives an "its not our problem anymore" answer from HL (or any other platform come to that) to quote malfesto's post of FCA Rules to them.

lejog2003

I've also had a quick look at HL's Vantage ts&cs. Under Section A25 (Custody) they say that while you are the beneficial owner of your investments, they are held in the name of HL Nominees.

I can't see anything which says what happens during transfers (of course it may be there somewhere), but it seems to me that while HL Nominees hold your investments i.e. until the funds managers reregister them, HL retain custody of them and hence responsibility for them.

C_Mababejive

lejog2003 wrote: »

I thought from what was said at the time of the budget that the NISA was just a new name for an ISA, no transfers necessary your stocks and shares ISA just becomes a stocks and shares NISA with new rules. no transfers necessary.

Yes what you say is true. What i am referring to is a person who holds an existing stocks and shares ISA.

He/she wants to transfer that value without having to endure the in specie torments highlighted in this discussion with its resultant delays (deliberate?) and disappearing funds.

In July 1st when the new NISA rules become active, you could sell the funds in the ISA, transfer it as cash to another platform, then rebuy the funds. It should be much quicker and less painful.

lejog2003

Well yes, but you could always do that with an ISA, and there's nothing new in the way platforms will handle such transfers from July 1. In fact if you look back in this thread, HL managed to perform a cash transfer of my stocks and shares ISA within 3 or 4 weeks, of which I was only out the market for 2 days, whereas my mixed cash/in-specie transfer took 18weeks. So yes by all means perform a cash transfer if you are willing to take the risk of being out of the market for a spell.

rpc

C_Mababejive wrote: »

In July 1st when the new NISA rules become active, you could sell the funds in the ISA, transfer it as cash to another platform, then rebuy the funds. It should be much quicker and less painful.

Which leaves you out of the market (bothers some) and with some investments it costs you money in transaction costs and spreads. Depending on the spread and fee structure, it can be cheaper to transfer in specie.

Given that the transfer is only required because HL are unfairly changing their terms, why should any investor have to incur those costs?

hyposmurf

I'm thankfully no longer with H&L and transfer complete. I applied to transfer in March and the process wasn't without snags.Fund dissapearing for a number of days from H&L and Bestinvest. Just wish the transfer process would be improved.Thanks again to the members who shared their knowledge to help with the transfer and cost comparisons!

gterr

“Free at last, Free at last, Thank God almighty we are free at last.”


All transfers complete. Even the cash is now in the right place. Goodbye HL. Can't say the last few months have been a pleasure.