Leaving HL without transfer charges

organic_wanabe

Now at the end of Week 16 and we are still awaiting £17,000 worth of funds to appear in my husband's II account. II seem to be 'on the case'. I phoned to complain a week or so ago and over £50,000, of the outstanding £70,000, appeared within a few days. II said that they have contacted HL who in turn will contact the Fund Manager to find out what is happening. We have also received a letter from II acknowledging our complaint and saying that they will review the information and will respond within 4 weeks. However, a dividend was due to be paid, at the end of May, on the missing fund so no doubt that will take further phonecalls to track down!

For a charge of only £80 p.a., for both our accounts, which we can use to offset trading costs, I would do it all again even knowing all the pitfalls. However, I would not transfer in-specie. I must say that when I phone II the staff are always helpful and pleasant.

le_loup

organic_wanabe wrote: »

For a charge of only £80 p.a., for both our accounts, which we can use to offset trading costs, I would do it all again even knowing all the pitfalls. However, I would not transfer in-specie. I must say that when I phone II the staff are always helpful and pleasant.

I agree totally. Judging by ISA cash transfers in from Nationwide and miscellaneous cash movements from H-L, a complete cash transfer from H-L would only have taken about a fortnight. Being out of the market that long is neither here-nor-there. In my case, III would have covered the costs of the repurchases.

samcrawford

The same day they acknowledge my formal complaint, the remainder of my funds show up in the account, thus concluding the transfer. Correlation does not imply causation of course, but I'm glad I did it. I'll press ahead with the complaint regardless, as I want to know what they're doing to prevent this occurring in the future.

organic_wanabe

I am delighted to report that (Week 17) my husband's transfer is now complete - the last fund appeared today - joy of joys! I phoned H-L to query the missing dividend and they confirmed that they have it sitting in DH's account (although online his balance is showing as zero). The H-L guy I spoke to on the phone said he'd send a message to another H-L person who deals with this asking that the dividend be transferred to II. However, he thought that it may be possible that DH will have to sign another authorisation as the original may now be out of date. You couldn't make it up! Still what is £134 when a week or so ago £80,000 was not accounted for.

2shy

samcrawford wrote: »

Now at 17 weeks into HL -> II transfer. Have sent a formal complaint to II regarding how long it's taking to complete. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't, but can't hurt to try.

I received a letter from II at the weekend regarding my formal complaint regarding the time taken to complete the transfer.
Basically II blame HL and HL blame II.

According to II
"We received notification of your transfer on 24th February 2014. We wrote to HL and requested a valuation of your account on 13th March. The valuation was received on 1st April and we issued a letter of acceptance the following day. This was most recently chased by our transfer team on 10th June."

Which doesnt tie up with the information I received from HL.

"We sent a valuation to Interactive Investor on 4 March 2014. We are yet to receive confirmation from Interactive Investor that they can accept the holdings. "

So either HL or II are telling porkies...

I received a secure message from II back on 25th April apologising for the length of time the transfer was taking but assured me it was HL fault. I questioned HL on this who assured me they had sent the valuation on 4th March. My reply to II started the formal complaint which they said they would answer in 4 weeks. They sent a letter after the 4 weeks apologising, but they still didnt have an answer to my formal complaint. Which came within the 8 week FOS limit.

I really dont trust either side of the story.

II offical answer is they are unable to uphold my complaint as there are matters outwith their control. i.e. HL.
They state that prior to the RDR transfers took on average 8 weeks. that number is now on average across the industry is around 12 weeks. Yet here I sit at 16 weeks.

That said, the latest round of pushing / complaining has seen my funds from HL no longer showing, and one now shows over at II.
Maybe we are actually getting somewhere.

Something really needs to be done across the industry to speed these transfers up.

naedanger

2shy wrote: »

I received a letter from II at the weekend regarding my formal complaint regarding the time taken to complete the transfer.
Basically II blame HL and HL blame II.

According to II
"We received notification of your transfer on 24th February 2014. We wrote to HL and requested a valuation of your account on 13th March. The valuation was received on 1st April and we issued a letter of acceptance the following day. This was most recently chased by our transfer team on 10th June."

Which doesnt tie up with the information I received from HL.

"We sent a valuation to Interactive Investor on 4 March 2014. We are yet to receive confirmation from Interactive Investor that they can accept the holdings. "

So either HL or II are telling porkies...

I received a secure message from II back on 25th April apologising for the length of time the transfer was taking but assured me it was HL fault. I questioned HL on this who assured me they had sent the valuation on 4th March. My reply to II started the formal complaint which they said they would answer in 4 weeks. They sent a letter after the 4 weeks apologising, but they still didnt have an answer to my formal complaint. Which came within the 8 week FOS limit.

I really dont trust either side of the story.

II offical answer is they are unable to uphold my complaint as there are matters outwith their control. i.e. HL.
They state that prior to the RDR transfers took on average 8 weeks. that number is now on average across the industry is around 12 weeks. Yet here I sit at 16 weeks.

That said, the latest round of pushing / complaining has seen my funds from HL no longer showing, and one now shows over at II.
Maybe we are actually getting somewhere.

Something really needs to be done across the industry to speed these transfers up.

I would be complaining to II that:

1) It took them 17 days from the date of receiving your request for them to ask for a valuation from HL. That does not seem reasonable to me.
2) They did not check that HL received the request II say they sent on 2nd April until 10 June. This seems very poor to me as there was always the possibility that it may go missing (as appears to have happened).
3) They took too long to answer your previous complaint.

I would tell II what HL have said, and say that I was therefore holding II liable unless they supply evidence that they did all the reasonably could. If they don't supply this evidence then they have failed to provide you with what you need to pursue a complaint against HL, which again is a II failing. (If they supply such evidence you can switch your complaint to HL.)

masonic

2shy wrote: »

They sent a letter after the 4 weeks apologising, but they still didnt have an answer to my formal complaint. Which came within the 8 week FOS limit.

I really dont trust either side of the story.

II offical answer is they are unable to uphold my complaint as there are matters outwith their control. i.e. HL.

I wouldn't waste any more time trying to pin the two organisations down. I'd strongly suggest informally approaching the FOS, letting them know you're in the middle of an in specie transfer, which has taken over 16 weeks so far and is still not complete, and that when you formally complained you received contradictory information from the two organisations, each of which refuses to accept any responsibility for the delays and see where that gets you. Worst case, the FOS will agree to lean on HL / II on your behalf, which might actually produce results.

You can also ask them for advice about how to bring a formal complaint against two organisations when they have cooperatively failed to treat you fairly but you don't know how to apportion blame.

Porcupine

While that sounds like eminently sensible advice, does anyone know how the FOS handles multiparty disputes?

As I understand it, standard practice for the FOS is to levy a £450 fee on the institution for any complaint referred to it, even if not upheld, which acts as an incentive for the institution to resolve its own disputes and not let them get to the FOS.

However, in a multiparty dispute where the consumer is stuck between a sprightly young firm and a heavyweight dinosaur, this could be used as a weapon. For example, dinosaur drags its feet so as to force cases to the FOS. FOS charges both sides £450 to look at the case. £450 is pocket money for the dinosaur, but ruining for the young firm. Young firm goes under, dinosaur walks away with the market in its pocket.

I'm not suggesting it happens like this, but there could be some perverse incentives in there...

masonic

My understanding is that institutions get a quota of free cases before they start paying for FOS complaints levied against them, so if equal numbers of free cases are allowed then that would make a small firm far less likely to reach the point where it is paying case fees.

Of course, the possibility of paying for the services of the FOS is only reached if you cannot reach a satisfactory resolution with the customer. Taking 2shy's case as an example, I don't think either company tried very hard to resolve the issue and any penalty they subsequently face would have been entirely avoidable.

Edit: I suppose if the 'heavyweight dinosaur' was found to be deliberately disrupting transactions with the 'sprightly young firm' in order to solicit chargeable FOS complaints against both firms, it would be very interesting indeed to find out what action would be taken.

C_Mababejive

Digressing slightly and i'll admit to not being fully up to speed on this, but isnt it the case that from July 1st ,the new NISA comes into play so if for eg you had s&s ISA, you could liquidate it,transfer it as cash then rebuy? I wonder how such transfers will be handled by platforms when the NISA arrives?