Advice urgently needed - what would you do?

meritaten

slightlyconfused1 wrote: »

Poet

I don't think the behaviour you call covert bullying is bullying at all. It is nasty unpleasant behaviour probably masking some feelings of inadequacy but not bullying. Nobody expects all children to be little angels or perfect, nor do we expect teachers to be able to solve every behavioural issue. We do expect them to act in the best interests of all pupils not just the pupils they like. Your posts seem to imply that if a child isn't popular or doesn't have an attractive personality they deserve everything they get and its their own fault.

If as a teacher you are not aware that a pupil in your care is behaving as you describe, constantly causing trouble amongst other pupils then you are not paying attention.

Surely you can see that a child being ostracized, being called horrible names and repeatedly beaten up is a vastly different situation to the one you describe. No matter how nice or not a child is they are entitled to be kept safe.

What really worries me is that you (a teacher I presume) are willing to blame the victim and the victims parents rather than accept the teachers and school are culpable. What hope do our children have if the people who act in loco parentis encourage either actively or through inaction the type of behaviour that drives children to suicide.

^^^^^You have just said everything I was too enraged to post coherently, or without being abusive, so didn't post anything!
Well done:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T

itsanne

I'm going to stand up for poet123 here. I think the interpretation some other posters have is a misinterpretation of what she said, despite what seems to me to be a reasonable way of explaining what she meant when it was clear it was being misunderstood.

Other than suggesting that those who are so upset by what she says take another, calm look at her posts, I don't intend to comment further on this as I don't feel it is helpful to the OP.

Perhaps a new thread should be started for debate, possibly in DT? I'd quite happily join in, but this is not the place.

poet123

slightlyconfused1 wrote: »

Poet

I don't think the behaviour you call covert bullying is bullying at all. It is nasty unpleasant behaviour probably masking some feelings of inadequacy but not bullying. Nobody expects all children to be little angels or perfect, nor do we expect teachers to be able to solve every behavioural issue. We do expect them to act in the best interests of all pupils not just the pupils they like. Your posts seem to imply that if a child isn't popular or doesn't have an attractive personality they deserve everything they get and its their own fault.

If as a teacher you are not aware that a pupil in your care is behaving as you describe, constantly causing trouble amongst other pupils then you are not paying attention.

Surely you can see that a child being ostracized, being called horrible names and repeatedly beaten up is a vastly different situation to the one you describe. No matter how nice or not a child is they are entitled to be kept safe.

What really worries me is that you (a teacher I presume) are willing to blame the victim and the victims parents rather than accept the teachers and school are culpable. What hope do our children have if the people who act in loco parentis encourage either actively or through inaction the type of behaviour that drives children to suicide.

No, not a teacher.

And I suggest you re read my posts again. Then perhaps again if needed.

Those who thanked it and the OP understand what I was saying, if you and Meritaten do not I will lose no sleep over it.;)

supersaver2

poet123 wrote: »

No, not a teacher.

And I suggest you re read my posts again. Then perhaps again if needed.

Those who thanked it and the OP understand what I was saying, if you and Meritaten do not I will lose no sleep over it.;)

I also understood what you were saying as well Poet and as a secondary teacher of 17 years you do get to see the 'other side' of these situations.

poet123

meritaten wrote: »

^^^^^You have just said everything I was too enraged to post coherently, or without being abusive, so didn't post anything!
Well done:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T:T

You have just illustrated my point re your agenda, and for that I thank you.;)

I post as I see it on any given subject regardless of who the poster is. I may have vehemently disagreed with them on one thread and agree with them on others as indeed I have done with you. For whatever reason you seem unable to do this, that is your problem not mine, and will not change how I approach you or your posts.;)

poet123

supersaver2 wrote: »

I also understood what you were saying as well Poet and as a secondary teacher of 17 years you do get to see the 'other side' of these situations.

I lecture in a college and get them when you have finished with them!!;)

supersaver2

poet123 wrote: »

I lecture in a college and get them when you have finished with them!!;)

Surely by the time they start college they are grown up and mature and you have no issues to deal with?!

poet123

supersaver2 wrote: »

Surely by the time they start college they are grown up and mature and you have no issues to deal with?!

You would think so wouldn't you?....Sadly, not the case.

slightlyconfused1

Poet

I have read your posts a number of times. I still do not agree that the behaviour you describe is bullying. I do agree it is destructive.

As a lecturer you deal with adults. My lecturers always treated us as such. If an adult attacks another person provocation can be a mitigating circumstance not a defence (with some exceptions).

I think if you read my post again you will see that I agree that the behaviour you describe is not acceptable. Where we disagree is that I feel that the school failed in not spotting it and dealing with it adequately. You appear to place the blame on the parents (who may not have been aware of the situation ) and the child. Would you not accept that the school and teachers have a role to play too?

poet123

slightlyconfused1 wrote: »

Poet

I have read your posts a number of times. I still do not agree that the behaviour you describe is bullying. I do agree it is destructive.

As a lecturer you deal with adults. My lecturers always treated us as such. If an adult attacks another person provocation can be a mitigating circumstance not a defence (with some exceptions).

I think if you read my post again you will see that I agree that the behaviour you describe is not acceptable. Where we disagree is that I feel that the school failed in not spotting it and dealing with it adequately. You appear to place the blame on the parents (who may not have been aware of the situation ) and the child. Would you not accept that the school and teachers have a role to play too?

I deal with 16+ so, yes, technically adults, but perhaps it is not so clear cut.

So, it is not bullying to constantly make remarks to the class at large about a specific student which are supposed to be funny, but in reality are not? Not bullying to target an individual and place your bag in their way and laugh, and encourage others to do likewise when they fall over it, to isolate students and call them names;ginger, !!!!!, stupid, etc, but in a jokey way. Ok, we disagree. Check out the definition of bullying and ask yourself if your child was on the receiving end of the above on a daily basis would your opinion change?

I placed the blame on the parents who would not accept their child behaved in that way, because, like you, they think it is it is childish, even normal. And it is, till it crosses the line, and when challenged about it still they persist but slyly. If you were in the classroom you would know the line had been crossed. I see it, I know when the line has been crossed. I deal with it.

Which school? I made it clear that I was not referring to the op, so I am unclear what you mean here. I think you are conflating two issues.

I thought I had made it abundantly clear that both the school and the teachers in any school have a role to play. Ultimately, the responsibility is theirs.

I really am not sure what you are taking issue with here.