Advice urgently needed - what would you do?

jellyhead

animalhouse wrote: »

This vent wasn't aimed at the people who have given good advice. It's my cry into the darkness...
It's now half-two in the morning and I'm still watching over my little love, who I've failed.
But won't do so again.

You haven't failed him! It's a hard decision, and the fact that he wanted to still go to football masked how they were making him feel and probably lulled you into a false sense that it probably wasn't 'that bad'.

Also, you didn't fully realise how badly the school were dealing with things. No matter how 'annoying' your son might be for the other kids there is no excuse for the behaviour he's been subjected to, and teachers should manage their classrooms so that exclusion and bullying like that can't take place - don't let them choose where they sit if it causes bullying, for example.

Switching schools is such a big decision, and no parent makes it lightly. Many of us don't have to because the school's intervention is effective. Don't feel guilty for not doing it before now - you're doing it now and that's what matters. Your boy showed you his bruises and told you how he felt, and you are dealing with it. He knows you love him and want to do your best xx

mumps

poet123 wrote: »

Don't be so disingenous, you posted to cause argument. My post is very clear in its itent, and those who have thanked it seemed to get the point. That you didn't is no surprise!! Do try not to de rail the OP's thread though with your usual brand of the N word.

If you have a child who has been seriously bullied, wanting to kill themselves is a good indicator I find, then you get so used to the educational establishment trying to blame the victim that you will react to anyone trying to put the other side. Look at it from the victim/victim's family's point of view. You have a child who annoys other people for some reason or no reason and they are kicked, spat on, threatened etc etc why should you have to look at it from any other point of view?

In our case my DD was seriously bullied at one school, she changed schools at 11 and some of the bullies went with her. The first school could not or would not deal with it, at the second school at the first hint of trouble it was jumped on and she stayed there happily for seven years with no problems. Now do you think it is odd that I blame the first school for letting her down? She annoyed some kids as she was bright, enthusiastic and very happy in her home life. The kids who bullied her had troubled home lives and were not as bright. Should she have to suffer for that even though it upset them?

slightlyconfused1

I think Mumps has a very good point. On one occasion when I went to the school over an incident I was told that the child in question had a difficult home life. This in my book is not an excuse for letting them make someone else miserable. If a child needs help they should be given help not carte blanche to behave anyway they want.

poet123

mumps wrote: »

If you have a child who has been seriously bullied, wanting to kill themselves is a good indicator I find, then you get so used to the educational establishment trying to blame the victim that you will react to anyone trying to put the other side. Look at it from the victim/victim's family's point of view. You have a child who annoys other people for some reason or no reason and they are kicked, spat on, threatened etc etc why should you have to look at it from any other point of view?

In our case my DD was seriously bullied at one school, she changed schools at 11 and some of the bullies went with her. The first school could not or would not deal with it, at the second school at the first hint of trouble it was jumped on and she stayed there happily for seven years with no problems. Now do you think it is odd that I blame the first school for letting her down? She annoyed some kids as she was bright, enthusiastic and very happy in her home life. The kids who bullied her had troubled home lives and were not as bright. Should she have to suffer for that even though it upset them?

I thought my post was clear, schools can and do let down those children they do not protect from the bullies.

However, they also let down those children who turn on those who have covertly bullied them. That was my point. The other side of the obvious bullying is when a child just snaps, often they are the ones vilified when actually they are the ones who have simply had enough.

It is hard for schools to deal with covert bullying because they rarely have the full picture. As I said in my earlier post mine was a very general comment showing the other side of bullying not at all directed at the the OP or her son. His ordeal (and yours)sounds horrific and should not be tolerated by any parent or condoned or aided and abetted by any school.

Bullying is never going to go away, it is in all schools to a greater or lesser degree. Those schools which deal effectively with it accept and acknowledge that and act accordingly.

Nor do I agree that because a child has a bad home life they should be allowed to vent their angst on other children. That is a separate issue and should be dealt with as such.

mumps

poet123 wrote: »

I thought my post was clear, schools can and do let down those children they do not protect from the bullies.

However, they also let down those children who turn on those who have covertly bullied them. That was my point. The other side of the obvious bullying is when a child just snaps, often they are the ones vilified when actually they are the ones who have simply had enough.

It is hard for schools to deal with covert bullying because they rarely have the full picture. As I said in my earlier post mine was a very general comment showing the other side of bullying not at all directed at the the OP or her son. His ordeal (and yours)sounds horrific and should not be tolerated by any parent or condoned or aided and abetted by any school.

Bullying is never going to go away, it is in all schools to a greater or lesser degree. Those schools which deal effectively with it accept and acknowledge that and act accordingly.

Nor do I agree that because a child has a bad home life they should be allowed to vent their angst on other children. That is a separate issue and should be dealt with as such.

I did understand your post, I was trying to explain why Meritaten might have reacted as she did. You have to be a parent who has watched their child being destroyed to understand how it feels. I know you felt Meritaten was being argumentative but when you have been through it you are never quite the same again and it is very hard to trust schools and what teachers say (and two of mine are teachers now.)

poet123

mumps wrote: »

I did understand your post, I was trying to explain why Meritaten might have reacted as she did. You have to be a parent who has watched their child being destroyed to understand how it feels. I know you felt Meritaten was being argumentative but when you have been through it you are never quite the same again and it is very hard to trust schools and what teachers say (and two of mine are teachers now.)

I know exactly why Meritaten reacted as she did, and it has nothing to do with the content of that particular post.

I was actually putting the pov of a bullied child who had gone under the radar and then erupted and got the blame. So, not in any way asking for consideration for bullies or schools.

mumps

poet123 wrote: »

I know exactly why Meritaten reacted as she did, and it has nothing to do with the content of that particular post.

I was actually putting the pov of a bullied child who had gone under the radar and then erupted and got the blame. So, not in any way asking for consideration for bullies or schools.

Well if you and Meritaten have some sort of history that is between you. However, I don't think you do get my point and I also disagree with you when you say something about bullying being covert by its very nature, this isn't always the case. It wasn't with my child and it wasn't with several other posters on here. It also sometimes involves teachers, again I have personal experience of this with my DD, I think the adults joining in is the worst part. I suppose you will write me off as someone who thinks my child is a candidate for sainthood so I will leave it at that.

poet123

mumps wrote: »

Well if you and Meritaten have some sort of history that is between you. However, I don't think you do get my point and I also disagree with you when you say something about bullying being covert by its very nature, this isn't always the case. It wasn't with my child and it wasn't with several other posters on here. It also sometimes involves teachers, again I have personal experience of this with my DD, I think the adults joining in is the worst part. I suppose you will write me off as someone who thinks my child is a candidate for sainthood so I will leave it at that.

I am not sure you do get my point. The thread had been about overt bullying up to that point so I thought I would introduce the other side of the coin and discuss covert bullying. I have personal experience of being bullied by a teacher so I most certainly agree with you that it can and does go on.

My point about parents believing their kids are up for sainthood was that the ones who do it covertly rarely come to the attention of the teachers, and are often considered by the teachers and parents as model pupils because it is done so slyly.

richie799

Its so cowardly when they all join in as a group because you can even make a stand against a group!

slightlyconfused1

Poet

I don't think the behaviour you call covert bullying is bullying at all. It is nasty unpleasant behaviour probably masking some feelings of inadequacy but not bullying. Nobody expects all children to be little angels or perfect, nor do we expect teachers to be able to solve every behavioural issue. We do expect them to act in the best interests of all pupils not just the pupils they like. Your posts seem to imply that if a child isn't popular or doesn't have an attractive personality they deserve everything they get and its their own fault.

If as a teacher you are not aware that a pupil in your care is behaving as you describe, constantly causing trouble amongst other pupils then you are not paying attention.

Surely you can see that a child being ostracized, being called horrible names and repeatedly beaten up is a vastly different situation to the one you describe. No matter how nice or not a child is they are entitled to be kept safe.

What really worries me is that you (a teacher I presume) are willing to blame the victim and the victims parents rather than accept the teachers and school are culpable. What hope do our children have if the people who act in loco parentis encourage either actively or through inaction the type of behaviour that drives children to suicide.