Prayers

Torry_Quine

Delree wrote: »

Sort of, I'm referring to Abraham and Isaac. Voices in your head are not god, it's a mental problem and whoever thinks they're hearing the voice of god in their head should seek help before they either harm themselves or possibly others.

Although it's perfectly possible for God to speak in this way it's certainly not by any means the only way and many Christians have ever heard Him in this way.

*max* wrote: »

Well then you basically want answers only from people who believe in God - after all, why else would they pray?

Basically, there are 2 options: either the thing they prayed for happened, or it didn't. I can't see what other "experience" of prayers there can be....

Since they believe in god, they will put the thing happening or not down to god answering their prayer - or not.

Really, I may be thick, but I can't see what else you can possibly debate about it.

If you want to know "do prayers work?", you're in for a huge disappointment. How could anyone possibly know?

Many people pray without actually believing in God but in desperation.

Delree wrote: »

I don't get it. If god bestows the medical knowledge and prowess on the professionals (I guess so called professionals because all they're really doing is piggybacking on a higher power's grace) then how come he's only just started to do it?

I mean it wasn't many hundreds of years ago when women frequently died in childbirth, where was god's knowledge then?

Syphalis was a death sentence, where were all god's medically bestowed professionals then?

Did god only just realise in the 18 hundreds that he had a load of knowledge down the back of the sofa that could he implant into people to go around and save other people?

It's not a case of God suddenly realising that he could implant knowledge into people. People themselves learn and use the knowledge although of course God can and does guide them.

Torry_Quine

peachyprice wrote: »

It won't stay like that if people express their true views, it'll all end in tears.

I'm with Filey on this one, I have never expressed my views on here other than to confirm that I'm an atheist, it's just not worth the abuse that erupts.

I save that for people who know on my door and won't take 'no thank you' for an answer

There's nothing wrong with saying you are an atheist on here and many do. There is no need for abuse from anyone but Christians are frequently abused.

Mankysteve wrote: »

:rotfl:I love that logic so no matter what happens it a message from god.

It may be many, many years before you get the answer though

lushlifesaver

Tropez wrote: »

In all fairness, there's no evidence that securityguy was even referring to children with Down Syndrome with his comments. Kingfisherblue had said that their child had "four major abnormalities", all of which would "kill [the child] without surgery". I'm not aware of Down Syndrome usually being fatal to a newborn without immediate surgery.

I'm aware of that, I was using a point from further on in Kingfisherblue's post seeing as it provided an example of what security guy seemed to be referring to as a damaged child.


I believe prayer has multiple uses; an expression of faith , a demonstration of belief in a God/higher being, an easily accessible platform of self expression or simply a way for people look for support.

Whether or not they come true obviously depends on your general outlook and how you choose to explain what happens to you.

peachyprice

Torry_Quine wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with saying you are an atheist on here and many do. There is no need for abuse from anyone but Christians are frequently abused.

Christians have been known to get just as abusive when the existence of their god is questioned, no doubt about that, which is somewhat ironic.

Delree

Torry_Quine wrote: »

Although it's perfectly possible for God to speak in this way it's certainly not by any means the only way and many Christians have ever heard Him in this way.



Many people pray without actually believing in God but in desperation.



It's not a case of God suddenly realising that he could implant knowledge into people. People themselves learn and use the knowledge although of course God can and does guide them.

So god doesn't know what is possible and relies on us on Earth to show him? Doesn't sound very all knowing to me.

But then again I'm hardly surprised by a god whose best idea to forgive sin was to have himself crucified so he could forgive himself on our behalf.

coolcats

Haven't read all the replies, the medical questioning ones though I can relate to. A member of my church was seen by the rugby physio for a lump in his neck, which was very noticable. It was suggested he had it checked out. So he did and after tests it turned out to be cancerous. He was had an MRI was seen in the MRI etc.

Was due to go again a few weeks later to see how much it had grown, but it got cancelled due to bad weather and half the hospital unable to get in. Went to hospital a few days later to have the MRI. the lump had totally gone. He had no treatment in that time, no medication, nothing.

The only thing he had done was pray, the whole church had prayed for him and a few other local churches had prayed for him also. In fact our church had had a special prayer meeting to pray for him and 3 others (including my son who were all due to have tests that same week. He had prayed that morning himself (and many others) and said he's neck felt warm suddenly and he felt strange.

The doctors were in a state of panic and couldn't explain why in the first Mri (and others) and tests its shows cancerous cells the last one shows nothing. they had no answers at all. They even said the machine was faulty had it checked etc, no was working perfect.

He can God was at work and had answered prayer. This man is in his late 20's, fit rugby player, was seem by many with the lump and since many without. Totally true, know him personally, saw the lump myself, heard firsthand.

paulineb_2

Im not religious but Ive done courses on spiritual healing and reiki and I do believe in the power of positive thought. I dont pray for people but if they need it I'll keep them in my thoughts

I think sometimes even people knowing they are being prayed for or given healing, can help

A lot of places work with those with cancer and do various complementary therapies including reiki

Id never discount anything out of hand, even though I dont believe in a God, still believe in something thats personal to me

Person_one

coolcats wrote: »

The doctors were in a state of panic and couldn't explain why in the first Mri (and others) and tests its shows cancerous cells the last one shows nothing. they had no answers at all. They even said the machine was faulty had it checked etc, no was working perfect.

I'm not an expert, but I'm fairly sure that an MRI can't tell you definitively that a lump or a growth is cancerous, just that it exists.

It just a 2D picture of a mass, you'd need a biopsy and histological analysis to know what the mass is actually made of.

Person_one

heartbreak_star wrote: »

This is spot on. It annoys me when people start praising a god because a team of hardworking medical professionals saved the life of their loved one.

HBS x

What bugs me about prayer is the way people will happily claim that God helped them with really minor trivial stuff.

Someone posted on facebook not long ago thanking God for helping them give a good performance in the opening night of their play. Um, I'm sure you were nervous and all, but if there is a God is it not a bit odd that he cares so much about plays, and exam results, and promotions and pregnancy tests but so little about the bigger problems facing the world?

Torry_Quine

Delree wrote: »

So god doesn't know what is possible and relies on us on Earth to show him? Doesn't sound very all knowing to me.

But then again I'm hardly surprised by a god whose best idea to forgive sin was to have himself crucified so he could forgive himself on our behalf.

Of course He knows what is possible but has allowed mankind to develop at our own pace.