Neighbours from Hell

lostinrates

poet123 wrote: »

. The reality is though that buying a one bed flat above another with a garden you have to be realistic about the chances of either an animal or a child moving in downstairs. Even without that flats are not the place for those with too many sensitivities I wouldn't have thought.

I think realistically an animal is very likely in a one bed garden flat, A child less so. Even with the current restrictions and 'bedroom tax' it seems realistic to expect many would expect a two bedroom flat two be more realistically expected for a home with child/children.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

i had a nightmare nextdoor.

my neighbours spread rumours about me to the local people that i or my wife didnt know, for sympathy.

my neighbours used our HA as a weapon of choice making 300+ reports against me in a 6 year period.

99.9% of the accusations were unfounded by our HA, by the last year the HA were wise to the reports, but i had many garden inspections, house inspections, HA asked other neighbours what were like, letters through the door, various area manager calls to the house.

she even used the local community support officer to knock at ours, she used to go back and forth to next door untill she realised she was being used to get to us, she reported my car untaxed and tried to have it towed as an abandoned vehicle when it was only sat 2 weeks and said to towing company 4 years.

the church abiding citizens to the outside world, untill close neighbours clocked on to what she and he were doing to us.

the HA arranged for us to go to mediation, i went - turned up early they didnt turn up at all.

they wanted a new build bungalow the HA were building on another site they quickly realised that this wasnt going to happed as the HA decided they were habitual complainers and liars, and didnt want to move them for fear of the repeat performance because the bungalow was on an estate with young children and mixed ethnics.

they chose to move of their own accord when the HA no longer piped up to their demands and stopped listening to the complaints.

6 years of hell living next to a elderly couple who pulled the vunrability card.

a neighbour of ours over heared a conversation about us they were having to fellow churchgoers and himself attended church regular, he put them strait and recited some chapter to them both and then pointed out their lie to the others defending me and my wife he came and told us that evening what had happened, i felt a little saddened but he said they had been saying lots on a weekly basis about us, and that he felt that they were going to take advantage of the church's goodwill as they were going to offer to put a bond down on a property for them to get them away from such unruley dangerous noisy neighbours.

OP i feel that leaving your property because of a disabled childs noises make chringe(sp) and were offended by a visitor who was intoxicated i would suggest that you should first go and speak with your neighbour and get to know them, and find out for yourself why the child makes these noises (it maybe temporary as many children with disabilities mentally physically or both tend to get a bit distraught about changes to routine and unfamilliarity to their surroundings).

i think youve become a sensitive if i read right that you had a loss in the family are you not sure you looking for something to sidetrack your thoughts of sadness and channel your anger towards something that can engross your mind away from the hurt!.

its not fun when someone targets you out of no fault of your own, and then make it their obsession to pick every door handle turn every knock of the door as an excuse to call it aimed at you and be on purpose.

phoebe1989seb

*max* wrote: »

May I just point out, all things being equal...complete tw4ts can have disabled/SN children too, believe it or not.

Having a special needs kid doesn't suddenly turn you into a lovely, upstanding citizen who's going to care about their neighbours if you were a thug to being with. Just putting it out there.

Very true! A couple of years after we bought our last-but-one house, the neighbouring property was purchased by a *property developer* who spent a fortune renovating it (it was a 1950s build on the Conservation Area site of a large detached Victorian house that had been destroyed by a bomb in WW2), putting in an indoor pool and totally transforming the place with absolutely enormous double-height angled windows with privacy glass and during the process of which his builders destroyed most of our garden and let their (aggressive) dogs run riot whilst the wall between our properties had been removed to allow his extension to be built.

He then moved in with his young (2nd) wife and two children, one of whom (the eldest) was severely mentally and physically disabled - the pool having been installed for this child's benefit. A friend who worked in the planning dept told us his plans were passed because he bribed someone and gave a sob story about his disabled son needing a vast swimming pool

We later discovered (from others who had previous dealings with him) that he was a known drug dealer and local *gangster*, running a protection racket for local businesses in this upmarket South Coast location. They completely kept themselves to themselves - which suited us as we are very private people - but from the odd occasion we met, his wife seemed very nice (if a bit *footballers' wives* ) and he seemed friendly, but not-to-be-messed-with.

When we were having some work done on our conservatory the neighbour was (unbeknown to us/our builders) in his indoor swimming pool and suddenly a torrent of abuse - effing and blinding - burst out, all aimed at our builder who was drilling into our wall. The neighbour had decided it was his wall and we had no right to be touching it. Our builder - a big burly guy who knew the guy by reputation - was so scared of him he actually refused to continue Turned out the neighbour had previously had his competition in the trade beaten up!

As our front upstairs bay window overlooked their decked area where their son would often be placed in his wheelchair, we could (if we so wished) see him writhing in his seat and just about make out the indistinguishable noises he would make. It was a very sad sight to see and we felt deeply sorry for him. I know they had a set of sensory rooms and a dedicated bathroom with hoist etc within their home and every day he was collected and taken off to the local special school. They also had paid help to assist with caring for him. As our houses were not attached we never heard any noise from within their house and as their gardens were to the front and side (theirs was a corner house) and their pool building took up their whole back garden, unlike the OP we suffered no disturbance from noise made by the boy.....

On the face of it the neighbour was an upstanding local citizen - his other kids (they went on to have a further two whist we lived there) went to the same fee-paying school as our DS and he was forever getting involved in charity fundraising events. He was obviously trying to give his kids what he had lacked as he came across as a little illiterate to say the least One day though, there was a massive police raid at the property - we later found out he was believed to have been involved in a killing and they were looking for firearms, but nothing was found.....or proved.

Anyway, apologies that this has drifted off-topic, but disabled children definitely don't choose their parents - this particular guy had all the money in the world to throw at his family and he certainly appeared to love his disabled son very much (from what we could see) - but for all that he wasn't a nice man and if crossed he was apt to turn extremely nasty......

Whilst the neighbours in the OP's situation are not nearly so fortunate money-wise as our former neighbour, it may well be that they too are not the nicest of types. As *max* says, having a disabled child doesn't automatically turn the parents into saints - unfortunately.......

Nicki

Well clearly if the downstairs tenants are in the m@fia then OP is correct to report them to the antisocial behaviour team. Thanks for clearing that up

shegirl

Nicki wrote: »

Well clearly if the downstairs tenants are in the m@fia then OP is correct to report them to the antisocial behaviour team. Thanks for clearing that up

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

This is getting insane.Nobody has said the parents must be saints.Equally there is nothing that has been said by the op that goes anywhere near showing they are undesirables!So why people decide they are and are 'fair game' for finding any excuse or lie to get them booted out I don't know!

I can't believe how one small 'incident' from their friend has been blow up like it has.

rozmister

I will admit that I have no read every post on this thread but read the first 7 pages and the last two. I'm probably a bit late to throw my tuppence in but I found some of the comments on here quite emotive and would really like to!

One of the things that struck me is how fixated on the 'noise' the OP was. We have problems with our neighbour's son shouting in the night (he isn't disabled he's a teenager on a playstation with a headset) and while I find the noise annoying and frustrating my housemate is driven insane by it. This could be partly because she is more sensitive to noise than me but it is also definitely partly because she fixates on the noise and obsesses. Whilst it's very annoying being awoken in the night if the OP did things to take their mind off it during the day she may find her less obsessed with it.

Another thing is that over time you will become used to the noise. I grew up with adults with learning disabilities and now work for a social housing organisation that specialises in housing vulnerable adults including adults with learning disabilities. When I first went out to visit some tenants one of the girls had a sensitive word in ym ear in case I was startled by how the tenants can be but it doesn't phase me. My mum has supported adults with learning disabilities most of my life and they've always been around me - I can understand why people may find the noises and characteristics of people with learning disabilities distressing if they have little experience but actually as time goes on if the OP were to get to know her neighbour's little boy she would probably warm to him and feel less distressed.

Drawing on my social housing experience I can also say to the comments earlier on in this thread that the tenants with the disabled son are breaching their tenancy agreement - you will not find many housing providers in this country who will evict a family with a disabled child who is noisy for breaching their tenancy agreement. The damage such an eviction would do an organisation's reputation is incalculable, it would be professional suicide. I may be reading too much into it but if the OPs flat is the 1st floor that would make this flat a GFF which they may need for accessibility reasons. GFFs that are accessible are hard to find so moving the tenants, even if they wanted to move, could be difficult.

Finally as for the implications that this child is at risk - noises of this nature alone are not enough to be making or suggesting serious safeguarding allegations against the parents of a disabled child. If the OP felt the child showed signs of neglect - was unkempt, dirty, very thin, had bruises or other marks on their body or came across as being unhappy/trying to escape then I would absolutely encourage them to contact their local Social Services department but the OP did not mention any of this. The Daniel Pelka case is tragic because of the failings of professionals but there were many signs of neglect in his case - the OP has not told us of any in their post.

Nicki

That was a great post rozmister. And well timed as I was just getting the giggles with some of what had been posted tonight which took this beyond absurd. The organised crime post was a particular cracker but coolcait's one about "being all for" disabled children living in the community but only with support was another humdinger. As most families dont get that support I guess that's compulsory detention centres for the rest of us or perhaps a return to asylums for our kids.

coolcait

To re-iterate:

coolcait wrote: »

We don't know if the couple living downstairs are doing everything they possibly can give their child the physical and emotional care and support which he needs. Or if they simply leave him to his own devices, and some of his noises are a result of him being in genuine - avoidable - distress rather than the involuntary sounds which most people are imagining.

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Now, if we take this thread at face value, someone has told us that she is hearing distressing noises from her neighbour's disabled child. OK, her reason for posting is that the noises are upsetting her, rather than concern for the child.

Yet, the overwhelming message from this thread is that the noises are normal, and how dare she even think about reporting any concerns.

I'm all for having the disabled live in the community, as long as they are getting the appropriate support. Part of that support, IMO, is that neighbours, teachers and anyone else around the disabled person feels able to report any concerns they have - especially about the disabled person's wellbeing - without being vilified.

....

poet123 wrote: »

I don't disagree with much you have written.

Except that at no time did the OP suggest that her issue with the noises stemmed from concern, but rather from the fact that they disturbed her peace greatly, and that she didn't see why she should either have to put up with them or try to do anything to help herself.

Tbh, if that had been me I would have been concerned that the noises may signify something untoward and been a bit nosy.

Nicki wrote: »

Sorry coolcait but though you are usually sensible, you are stretching thins here.

Where has the OP said or hinted the child is being abused or ill treated? Where has she said she has or wants to raise concerns to any authority about the child's well being and welfare?

What she HAS said and more than once is that the child's noises disturb and upset her and that she has been to the letting agents to complain and the anti social behaviour team and the police. These are punitive steps designed to have the family moved out of their home and there is no element of protecting the child's welfare

I've acknowledged that the OP's reason for posting is about concern for her own wellbeing, rather than the child's wellbeing.

However, on the information given, how can any of us be sure that the child is being properly cared for? Any more than we can be sure that he isn't being properly cared for. Yet most people have assumed the latter.

Leave aside the OP, and what she has said and how she has said it.

The overwhelming message on this thread is that the noises made by the child next door are 'normal'. They may be. None of us can say for sure that they are.

Alongside that overwhelming message is the one which runs 'how dare you complain about/report the family because of these noises'. That message is coming from the letting agent (no vested interest there), and from many messages on this thread.

Sometimes abuse comes to light because people say "I think there's abuse going on here". Sometimes it comes to light because people say "I can't cope with the goings on next door".

If the OP's complaints about the noise are as unfounded as so many posters are making out, then why not put it to an official complaint?

Even if the complaint is based on the complainant's own selfishness (as suggested by the responses to this thread) it offers the opportunity for investigation into the reasons for the noise.

If, as this thread suggests, the family will not be penalised for involuntary noises from a well-cared-for child, why not put that to the test with a complaint?

Nicki

Because of the stress to the family who will be faced with a SS investigation and the threat of an eviction when there is no evidence of any kind that the child is being ill treated or even a genuine suspicion on OP's part?

Why don't I just ask SS to pop round and check up on MY next door neighbours kids? I have no reason to believe they aren't well looked after but better safe than sound eh?

coolcait

rozmister wrote: »

Finally as for the implications that this child is at risk - noises of this nature alone are not enough to be making or suggesting serious safeguarding allegations against the parents of a disabled child. If the OP felt the child showed signs of neglect - was unkempt, dirty, very thin, had bruises or other marks on their body or came across as being unhappy/trying to escape then I would absolutely encourage them to contact their local Social Services department but the OP did not mention any of this. The Daniel Pelka case is tragic because of the failings of professionals but there were many signs of neglect in his case - the OP has not told us of any in their post.

The OP has given us very little information at all.

Yet, on the basis of the information provided, there is a very strong groundswell of opinion that the child's noises are 'normal'.

We simply don't know that one way or the other.

From what the OP has written, she has only heard the child. She is no better placed than anyone else on this thread to say whether or not there are physical signs of neglect.

From the child protection point of view, why would it be a bad thing if she reported the noises she's hearing - even if she does so for selfish reasons?