Neighbours from Hell

rozmister

Nicki wrote: »

In her very first post OP says she has reported the child's noises to the antisocial behaviour team and also that she made a complaint to the police about the incident in the garden, in addition to the complaint to the letting agents. So reports have already been made to the authorities about the child.

There were some posts earlier which have now been deleted which said that OP should fabricate allegations of abuse, drug dealing and other criminal activities against the family and make repeated reports to SS and the police to help get the family evicted, and there was some discussion which remains on the thread about how this was not the right thing to do. I cannot recall anyone on the thread other than you expressing any concern that the child is being ill treated or anyone saying that even if there is reason to believe this to be so that it should not be reported.

It's just a vile thing to do IMO to report a family for suspicion of abuse when there is no evidence of any kind other than an obvious symptom of a disability. If every person who comes across this family does the same thing they will be under constant suspicion for no reason at all other than that their child makes involuntary noises. What kind of life is that for a parent?

Bloody hell I missed the posts about making false reports to get the family evicted but that's absolutely disgusting!!

Vicky123

Also worth mentioning that the authorities are not obligated to inform the complainant of their findings, so as nothing has happened which is probably what's frustrating the OP then it's fairly safe to say they were doing nothing wrong. A complaint to the police regarding a disabled child will immediately be passed to child protection team at Social Services who in this case will already have the children with disability team involved, never the less an investigation would take place as a matter of course.
This is no different to people phoning the benefits hot line utterly convinced a neighbour is fiddling the system and are outraged that nothing was done, never crosses their mind that the people were innocent.
To encourage the OP to do more than she has already done is to risk her being investigated for harrasment along the lines of disability hate, because contrary to her belief that this is the neighbours from hell they are actually just a family in unsuitable housing who have a severely disabled child.
Whether they are nice people or the !!!!! is irrelevent because none of that is the point of the original post.

Nicki

rozmister wrote: »

Bloody hell I missed the posts about making false reports to get the family evicted but that's absolutely disgusting!!

Abuse to their credit deleted them within about half an hour of them being posted but yeah some choice specimen of humanity did offer that advice to OP

rozmister

Nicki wrote: »

Abuse to their credit deleted them within about half an hour of them being posted but yeah some choice specimen of humanity did offer that advice to OP

I think when you are surrounded by people who are positive and tolerant about disability and diversity you forget how terrible some people's attitudes are! People really shock and disappoint me sometimes.

coolcait

Nicki wrote: »

Coolcait the OP has described the sounds this child makes as being animal like and like a predatory animal. Have you ever heard a distressed child make sounds of this nature?

The reason why a number of us believe this to be normal is because the OP has said the child is "handicapped" which strongly implies a visible disability and because those of us with non verbal children with disabilities are very familiar with the grunts, squeals, clicks and shrieks which are symptomatic of a range of disabilities and which yes could be described by someone unkind as sounding like an animal.

If the OP had posted that the child was calling out words she could not understand we would have guessed that English was not his native language not assumed he was speaking in tongues. So if we are told he is disabled and is making noises which we know disabled children make, then we assume unless there is ANY evidence of any wrongdoing that he is vocalising reflexively not trying to communicate ill treatment.

I'll start from the assumption that you are not trying to patronise me, and are simply trying to ascertain the extent of my life experience in general, and experience of disabilities in particular

At which point, I realise that a full answer will:

i) seriously compromise any anonymity I may have left
ii) in part, by giving out information about my experience in dealing with children of all ages, in all frames of mind, will confirm points i) and iii)
iii) come across as a 'some of my best friends/family/neighbours are disabled' testimony. Which, despite its sincerity, will inevitably come across as a 'some of my best friends are ....'
iv) give away my age!!!! :eek::eek:

Anyway.

I have several decades of life experience. I have an extensive family network, and am close to many of the people in that network. I also work with people, and have done so for 'a few' decades.

As a result of that experience, I can observe:

Children are humans. I have heard the sounds made by distressed humans of various ages, for various reasons. Those sounds don't always sound 'human'.

In grief, for example. There's a human element to the sound. But, that's not the element which necessarily hits you on a visceral level.

Thinking of too many sounds of distress that I've heard over the years, I think it's easier to hear the 'human' when words are involved. You can still hear the distress when the person is beyond words, or has never been able to put those feelings into words.

As many posters - including you - have pointed out, the OP is lookng at this situation entirely from the perspective of the inconvenience to her.

But, from the information we have, we cannot really say whether or not this child's noises are involuntary, or a sign of distress. Or even an involuntary sign of distress.

You are asking me to share your assumptions. Why? You already know that I have questioned those assumptions.

'Handicapped' does not necessarily imply a visible disability. Where does it say that the OP has even seen this child?

Describing noises in animal terms is not necessarily unkind. I have described the noises made by my neighbour in words. If I were asked to provide a visual or aural example, I would point to My Cousin Vinnie, and the scene where Vinnie and Lisa are in hunting cabin and hear the cry of a barn owl.

The sound - in terms of how it is sudden, unexpected, and piercing - is very similar to the screams I hear from my neighbour. The reaction from Vinnie and Lisa is very similar to how I was when I first heard the screams, and how I react now if I am asleep when I hear it.

I'm not calling my neighbour a barn owl, or any other kind of bird or animal. I'm describing a noise.

I don't take offense when my niece tells me that I snort like Daddy Pig when I laugh. And I don't intend to. I may not like the idea that my laugh isn't a dainty feminine trill . But I can't deny that I snort. Although who can aspire to be Daddy Pig?

coolcait

Nicki wrote: »

That was a great post rozmister. And well timed as I was just getting the giggles with some of what had been posted tonight which took this beyond absurd. The organised crime post was a particular cracker but coolcait's one about "being all for" disabled children living in the community but only with support was another humdinger. As most families dont get that support I guess that's compulsory detention centres for the rest of us or perhaps a return to asylums for our kids.

That's not what I said.

I said 'as long as they are getting the appropriate support'.

You have given numerous examples of 'appropriate support' in the course of this thread. Mainly by omission.

So, from the points you have made, families with disabled children are not getting appropriate financial support. They are not getting appropriate housing support.

They are not getting appropriate community support, in terms of people not understanding that disability related benefits do not stretch to paying for appropriate housing, and are not meant to do so. And so on.

I don't believe that they are getting appropriate support in dealing with any of those issues, and others.

Equally, I don't believe that their communities are getting appropriate support in dealing with concerns raised.

Concerns which could also be to the benefit of the disabled person and their family. If addressed properly.

coolcait

poet123 wrote: »

Surely at this point the OP has very little reason to make such a complaint? She stated the child had a gazebo in the garden to play in so he would be able to be seen by the OP from her balcony. If she was really concerned (something which imo has not even entered her head) she would be better advised by you and all of us to get closer to the family rather than alienate them, by doing that she could judge their care of the child.

Tbh, giving her that idea on a thread where she has not even mentioned that anything untoward could be going on is not wise imo. Firstly, she could spark real issues for the family and secondly if they were the vindictive type (or have friends who are) she could be placing herself in danger.

I realise I am being repetetive, but I have no idea how many posts people have read at this stage.

The OP has an issue with the noise. She has a right to report that issue.

It may be that her report is investigated, and the result is that the OP is over-reacting.

It may be that an investigation finds that the OP is over-reacting about the noise, but there is an issue to be looked into.

And various other permutations.

If the OP makes no report, solely on the basis that an internet thread says she shouldn't - purely on the evidence of 4 extant posts by the OP, and a quote of one which appears to have been delelted.

I'm uncomfortable with that.

Nicki

coolcait wrote: »

I realise I am being repetetive, but I have no idea how many posts people have read at this stage.

The OP has an issue with the noise. She has a right to report that issue.

It may be that her report is investigated, and the result is that the OP is over-reacting.

It may be that an investigation finds that the OP is over-reacting about the noise, but there is an issue to be looked into.

And various other permutations.

If the OP makes no report, solely on the basis that an internet thread says she shouldn't - purely on the evidence of 4 extant posts by the OP, and a quote of one which appears to have been delelted.

I'm uncomfortable with that.

She has already reported it and been advised by both the letting agent and the ASB team that the child is disabled and that is the end of the matter so far as they are concerned. What she seems to be asking for on this thread is a way to force the tenants to move out, and that is what she is being told by most posters she cannot and should not be doing. Nothing at all about not reporting genuine concerns about the child or not asking for advice about how to deal with the noise disturbance, just that OP should not be harrassing (in the legal sense of the word) the tenants for matters not within their control.

Vicky123

She's already reported to all and sundry, she made that clear in her first post, that is what everyone is responding to. If you know that then you are encouraging her to carry on regardless of the fact that it must have already been investigated, this could bring her far more problems than noise.
Lots of posters have children who are already under social services children with disability team and know the procedures.
We are going round in circles now, the OP has an issue with involuntary noise from a disabled child, she did not express any concern over the childs care.

coolcait

rozmister wrote: »

The OP has already made a complaint to the letting agent and the local police. The police will have attended the neighbour's property as standard course in a complaint like this

the complaint was about abusive language and potentially threatening behaviour from an adult who is not part of the family. As noted by a number of other posters on this thread. I haven't seen the OP mention that the report to the police contained anything to do with the noise made by the child.

and if there were signs of neglect they have an obligation to contact Social Services -

they may not have looked at/for signs of neglect, given the reasons why the OP reported the incident to the police


which they may have done we don't know. To encourage the OP to continue to contact other agencies just in case the child is being abused, even though they don't seem particularly concerned they are, is encouraging harassment.

That's not happening as far as I can see. Please quote any instances where you think it is happening. ,

It's all multi agency for things like this now and if the multi agency approach isn't working, as it didn't in the Daniel Pelka case, then it probably won't matter how many times you tell people because the system is truly broken down anyway.

As I'm the only person to have mentioned Daniel Pelka, can you please state explicitly if you are challenging any point I have made. Otherwise, I accept that you are simply expressing a shared horror and disbelief over what happened to that ppor child.

I've personally called out the police before when I've been concerned for one of my neighbours welfare and I would encourage anyone who feels PRETTY SURE there COULD be someone at risk in a property to contact the police or social services. But in this case the police will have already attended the property in question

That hasn't been stated for sure. If the police did attend, it was in the context of a drunken adult verbally abusing another adult and putting them in 'a state of fear and alarm' *(not sure if that's Scots law, or UK-wide)

so there is no need to call social services as well

no one has suggested that

unless there are new incidents since the police attended that leads the OP to believe the child is at risk.

Nicki - the !!!!! man is a crazy story but at least his son probably had access to things most parents of disabled children dream of having. Care whenever desired (can privately fund), sensory room, up to date accessible transport, etc. From my limited experience of the system there's no option other than living in the community and it's very hard to get the necessary support to make that work as well as it could unless you're a millionaire!

Again, this is a post which goes way beyond anything I have said on this thread. I am slightly puzzled that your posts are so applauded - as a recent arrival on the thread - when other new posters to the thread have not been welcomed with such enthusiasm.

I'm quite happy to discuss anything I have actually said. I'll also discuss points which have been explicitly made by others are part of a discussion.

Straw man arguments, like 'reports to social services'? No

Especially not on a thread like this - where my views have been very clearly stated from the outset.