Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

MikeeMOO

Currently claiming compensation for a flight back to the UK which was cancelled 1 hour after scheduled departure because of technical reasons. After writing a letter to the airline stating the Regulation 261/2004 EC and claiming an appropriate amount, I received a reply stating no compensation was due as technical problems are classed as "unforseen circumstances". I would however be offered a flight voucher to the value of £100 to use against my next flight as a goodwill payment.

I have written to reject this and will refer my claim to the National Enforcement Body in France who are responsible for enforcing the legislation. I will then file a civil court action and see where that takes things.

Will post updates as and when I get them....

Background info:

A review paper of the current Regulation was submitted to the Comission last year and stated:

"In our view, technical problems with an aircraft are primarily the responsibility of the airline, and the level of staff and aircraft backup available is a commercial decision for the airline to take. As a result, these factors are wholly different from factors such as weather or security threats, which are usually outside the control of the airline, and so it would be reasonable for there not to be any exemption from payment of compensation when flights are cancelled for these reasons. "

Here is an excellent source of info on how to claim compensation:

http://www.airpassengers.eu/page_accueil.php3?lang=en


-Mikee-

BrendanO

Hi my wife and I were booked on a Varig flight on 15th December 2007 at about 10pm to Sao Paulo but the flight was delayed until about 11:30 am the following day. I think they didn't have a plane, they had cancelled the flights the two previous days as well. They put us up in a basic hotel near Heathrow overnight and we flew the following day but basically lost a whole day in Sao Paulo arriving late at night rather than early in the morning. Are we potentially entitled to anything and roughly how much? Any advice appreciated. Thanks

Shona99

Brendan0

Whether you can validly claim any compensation under eu 261/2004 depends upon whether there has been a cancellation as opposed to a delay. The difference between the two is subject to a variety of factors. A cancellation would provide a 600 euros compensation per passenger
Check out www.flightmole.com that site seems to have up to date analysis

sruliuk

I was scheduled to fly with ELAL on the 15th of October 2007 from London Heathrow to Tel Aviv at 10.30pm. The plane had a technical problem and I sat waiting on the plane for four hours. We were then sent off the plane and shuttled to a hotel without our luggage (had to wear same clothes next day without deodorant etc...).
I asked the onsite ELAL manager, as I have a meeting in the morning which I need to attend, if I were to fly with a different airline would ELAL compensate me, he replied that he is not a travel agent and cannot help me with my travel arrangements.
The departure was re-scheduled for 1:30pm (16th, 15 hour delay) when it appeared that the problem wasn’t fixed, I sat another 3 hours on the plane until we finally took off (total 18 hour delay).
Upon arrival in Tel Aviv, all passengers were compensated with a $200 voucher towards the purchase of another ELAL ticket, upon my return to the UK my travel agent advised me that this voucher is only useful if I buy direct from ELAL.
I felt in no way is this a fair reimbursement for what I personally suffered due to this delay (cancelled meetings etc.. my total stay was supposed to be 3 days and the delay cut it to 2 days!).
I wrote to ELAL and put all the details of how I was inconvenienced and told them they can stick their voucher and I want proper compensation.
Prepare yourselves for this, they wrote back in a very nice language that I can get lost and offered me $100 compensation (about £49) which I would only receive if I gave them my bank details so they can transfer the funds into my account (which I have not done).
Is there anything I can do to get proper compensation from them? Any advice? What is their legal obligation?

dzug

sruliuk wrote: »

I was scheduled to fly with ELAL on the 15th of October 2007 from London Heathrow to Tel Aviv at 10.30pm. The plane had a technical problem and I sat waiting on the plane for four hours. We were then sent off the plane and shuttled to a hotel without our luggage (had to wear same clothes next day without deodorant etc...).
I asked the onsite ELAL manager, as I have a meeting in the morning which I need to attend, if I were to fly with a different airline would ELAL compensate me, he replied that he is not a travel agent and cannot help me with my travel arrangements.
The departure was re-scheduled for 1:30pm (16th, 15 hour delay) when it appeared that the problem wasn’t fixed, I sat another 3 hours on the plane until we finally took off (total 18 hour delay).
Upon arrival in Tel Aviv, all passengers were compensated with a $200 voucher towards the purchase of another ELAL ticket, upon my return to the UK my travel agent advised me that this voucher is only useful if I buy direct from ELAL.
I felt in no way is this a fair reimbursement for what I personally suffered due to this delay (cancelled meetings etc.. my total stay was supposed to be 3 days and the delay cut it to 2 days!).
I wrote to ELAL and put all the details of how I was inconvenienced and told them they can stick their voucher and I want proper compensation.
Prepare yourselves for this, they wrote back in a very nice language that I can get lost and offered me $100 compensation (about £49) which I would only receive if I gave them my bank details so they can transfer the funds into my account (which I have not done).
Is there anything I can do to get proper compensation from them? Any advice? What is their legal obligation?

It's debatable - arguably they have exceeded their obligations by offering any compensation at all. In the case of a delay all they are obliged to do is look after you during the delay.

Or was it a cancellation? How do you define that anyway? If it was you are entitled to compensation on a scale defined by EU regulations UNLESS the cancellation was due to circumstances beyond their control. There are differences of opinion as to whether technical problems with the aircraft are always, sometimes or never within the airline's control.

If you want more then you are going to have to take them to court. You may or may not win (your entitlement is grey to say the least) and whether you do will depend as much on whether they think it worthwhile to turn up in court as on the rights and wrongs of the matter.

sruliuk

it was not cancelled, it was just delayed.

Shona99

"Circumstances beyond their control" is not the defence as contained within EC Regulation 261/2004. The defence is "extraordinary circumstances".

The comment that "There are differences of opinion as to whether technical problems with the aircraft are always, sometimes or never within the airline's control." is not the relevant point.

The two notions are quite distinct. You need to refer to Advocate General Sharpstone's opinion to the European Court of Justice. Discussion of this is found on https://www.flightmole.com .

It is not the variety or quantity of opinion that is important but the quality and authority of the opinion giver.

dzug wrote: »

It's debatable - arguably they have exceeded their obligations by offering any compensation at all. In the case of a delay all they are obliged to do is look after you during the delay.

Or was it a cancellation? How do you define that anyway? If it was you are entitled to compensation on a scale defined by EU regulations UNLESS the cancellation was due to circumstances beyond their control. There are differences of opinion as to whether technical problems with the aircraft are always, sometimes or never within the airline's control.

If you want more then you are going to have to take them to court. You may or may not win (your entitlement is grey to say the least) and whether you do will depend as much on whether they think it worthwhile to turn up in court as on the rights and wrongs of the matter.

dzug

sruliuk wrote: »

it was not cancelled, it was just delayed.

then no compensation is due under the EU regulations.

pboae

Ahh, I knew there had to be a thread on this somewhere! I posted this elsewhere, so I've copied it across. Hope that is OK!

In December I travelled to Krakow with Easyjet, there were 6 adults and 1 baby across 3 bookings. The flight back was cancelled due to bad weather and we had to get a hotel for the night.

We didn't take the proverbial with it, (we just wanted to get some sleep by then) and all of us shared 2 rooms. It was well below the limit that Easyjet staff said they would refund.

I emailed all the info to them (as they told me to on the night) and got an auto reply, I phoned, and was told I had to write. I wrote and got no reply, wrote again (recorded delivery) and have still had no reply.

I'm wondering what to do next. Is it worth trying to phone or write again, or should I take it to the small claims court?

I have asked for a refund of the hotel costs, the taxis to and from the hotel and some compensation for the cost of mobile phone calls we had to make, because they refused to help us contact people during the delay (even though I believe they were legally obliged to do so). They also failed to provide us with any food, the departure area ran out of food and by the time we managed to get out and get to a hotel it was too late, and we couldn't get anything there either. If I do go to small claims with this, should I ask for a specific amount of additional compensation for this, and for them failing to respond in a reasonable time?

One of the other members of our group has been trying to make a seperate claim in their holiday insurance for other expenses they incurred, and Easyjet have told them they have sent the confirmation the flight was cancelled to my address, but they haven't sent anything. Yet their junk mail is still getting through. His (and our) travel insurance, both say we have to pursue it with Easyjet first before we can try and make a claim from them.

Jamesr44

The following is recited from the EC´s own evaluation of regulation 261/2004

This force majeure provision allows an air carrier to exclude financial compensation in cases
where “an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been

avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken”.

This paragraph is in fact just the explanation for force majeure , a widely and international recognised statement that has been defined by numerous law courts through the ages.
So why all this fuss about special force majeure for airlines? Is there any reason that rules set up for other industries should not apply to the airlines?The airlines proclaim air safety , but certainly safety in all transportation forms arer equally important , or are there aspects to airline transport
that makes it more unsafe than other transportion. If a bus looses a wheel you get an accident, if a train is derailed you also get an accident the only diffrence is the number of casualties due to the number of passengers that are onboard the vehicles.
Passengers should claim their rights according to the well established force majeure rulings that exist, for example not all strikes are force majeure.If a strike warning has been sent 2 weeks in advance and the strike is declared illegal by the labour court, then it is not force majeure, and besides, the airlines will certainly claim compensation from the workers strikefund.