Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

Jamesr44

A delayed flight becomes cancelled if they change the Flight Code (Flight Number).It is then considered to be a new flight.This would for example happen if they put you on a codeshare flight with another airline or aircraft.
Codeshare flights are recognised by a 4 figure flight number (XX 1234 or XX 123a) against the standard 3 figure flight number(XX 123)

Shona99

Jamesr44 wrote: »

The following is recited from the EC´s own evaluation of regulation 261/2004

This force majeure provision allows an air carrier to exclude financial compensation in cases
where “an event has been caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been

avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken”.

This paragraph is in fact just the explanation for force majeure , a widely and international recognised statement that has been defined by numerous law courts through the ages.
So why all this fuss about special force majeure for airlines? Is there any reason that rules set up for other industries should not apply to the airlines?The airlines proclaim air safety , but certainly safety in all transportation forms arer equally important , or are there aspects to airline transport
that makes it more unsafe than other transportion. If a bus looses a wheel you get an accident, if a train is derailed you also get an accident the only diffrence is the number of casualties due to the number of passengers that are onboard the vehicles.
Passengers should claim their rights according to the well established force majeure rulings that exist, for example not all strikes are force majeure.If a strike warning has been sent 2 weeks in advance and the strike is declared illegal by the labour court, then it is not force majeure, and besides, the airlines will certainly claim compensation from the workers strikefund.

There is perhaps some fine legal interpretation relevant here. The concept of using the notion of "force majeure" as being synonymous with "extraordinary circumstances" may be tempting because of the body of existing case law, but it may be going down the wrong alley. It is also quite possible that in many situations a rigourous interpretation of "extraordinary circumstances" is narrower concept than force majeure and hence detrimental ultimately to the passenger's pocket

If you read the opinion of Advocate general Sharpstone in the now withdrawn case before the ECJ of Kramme v SAS you can read the following.

[FONT=&quot]Extraordinary circumstances[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]48. The condition in Article 5(3) of Regulation No 261/2004 requires not only that the circumstances ‘could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken’ but also that they be ‘extraordinary’. I read these as separate and cumulative parts of the definition of the kind of circumstances envisaged. To interpret the second part of the definition as merely an explanation of the first would make the word ‘extraordinary’ redundant and suggest that it meant the same thing as ‘unavoidable’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]49. The regulation does not define the term ‘extraordinary circumstances’ – recital 14 merely provides examples – or indicate that it is a term of art. It therefore seems appropriate to understand the word ‘extraordinary’ in its literal sense of outside the ordinary. In a commercial context, it denotes events which would not normally arise in the course of trade. (24) [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]50. The travaux pr!paratoires also support a literal interpretation. In the course of them, ‘force majeure’ was altered to ‘extraordinary circumstances’. According to the Council’s statement in the Common Position, that change was made in the interest of legal clarity. (25)[/FONT]
The footnote referred to above (25) is repeated below.

[FONT=&quot]– See the Common Position, cited in footnote 19. The Council may have wished to avoid the uncertainty arising from the need the Court has identified to consider the notion of force majeure in the context of the provisions of each act in which it appears. See Case 266/84 Denkavit France [1986] ECR 149, paragraph 27.

Therefore the legislators thought about using force majuere and decided that wishes to use a new concept that needs to be understood.

This understanding isnt to be found primarily in the regulation itself but from cases and examples and some original and rigourous examination of the legislation, such as that given by Advocate General Sharpstone.

Incidentally the European Commission's labelling of the "extraordinary circumstances" provision as " force majeure" is probably rather clumsy legally. This narrative has no legal force and as can be seen above may cause confusion in an already confusing area for the vast majority of air passengers.

Airlines, as we know are attempting to "interpret" the defence widely. However the increasing examples as found and discussed in detail on
http://flightmole.com/forum/index.php and give an interesting insight into how passengers can challenge the brush off routinely given by airlines for claims for cancellation compensation
[/FONT]

boyracer

BA have just agreed to the full compensation of EUR600 per person for a delay of over 26 hours at destination.

For full details of how this was achieved see my post on Flightmole.com, thread Successful claim - BA218 Denver Heathrow Cancellation.

It's thanks to sites such as MSE and Flightmole that I felt confident to persue the claim - a big thank you to Martin and his team, and Hugh at Flightmole
:T :T :T

Shona99

boyracer wrote: »

BA have just agreed to the full compensation of EUR600 per person for a delay of over 26 hours at destination.

For full details of how this was achieved see my post on Flightmole.com, thread Successful claim - BA218 Denver Heathrow Cancellation.

It's thanks to sites such as MSE and Flightmole that I felt confident to persue the claim - a big thank you to Martin and his team, and Hugh at Flightmole
:T :T :T

Have read your account of obtaining 1200 Euros from British Airways-good result!

draytop

My partner and I have just returned off holiday, our return flight was delayed by 4+ hours, consquently we missed the last train and had to return home via a taxi. (Cost £25).

Flight was supposed to land at 11:50pm, but didn't land until 4:00am.
Trains don't start running until 6:00am.

The flight was delayed because they arrested some passengers on the inbound flight, and the airline crew had to give statements to the police.

We were not informed of any of this at the airport, not until we boarded. No information was given as to why the flight was delayed. No compensation was given, like a voucher for food or drink. We just had to sit at the gate for 4+ hours wondering if we were actually going to fly or not.

Anyway, onto my question. Is it worth chasing this up or not? Has anyone here received compensation for less than 5 hours delay?

I guess the first step as pointed out in the article is to contact the Airline involved?

Any help/advice much appreciated.

hollydays

draytop wrote: »

My partner and I have just returned off holiday, our return flight was delayed by 4+ hours, consquently we missed the last train and had to return home via a taxi. (Cost £25).

Flight was supposed to land at 11:50pm, but didn't land until 4:00am.
Trains don't start running until 6:00am.

The flight was delayed because they arrested some passengers on the inbound flight, and the airline crew had to give statements to the police.

We were not informed of any of this at the airport, not until we boarded. No information was given as to why the flight was delayed. No compensation was given, like a voucher for food or drink. We just had to sit at the gate for 4+ hours wondering if we were actually going to fly or not.

Anyway, onto my question. Is it worth chasing this up or not? Has anyone here received compensation for less than 5 hours delay?

I guess the first step as pointed out in the article is to contact the Airline involved?

Any help/advice much appreciated.

They legally are supposed to give you vouchers (its usualy about £5 i think,for meals/drinks),in practice I have found this very hit and miss.They may announce it over a tannoy,they may not tell you at all.In future you need to go and ask for them,i doubt you could get them retrospectivly.It not at all unusual to be told absolutely nothing.

ljmc199

hi, just got back from the maildives and on the way there was delayed for 24hrs and 20mins, First choice issued us with some vouchers and eventually at about two in the morning put us up in a hotel (meant to take off at 7pm). the next day we were taken back to the airport, given lunch and then were told to wait til our flight departed at 7pm. A letter was given to us whilst on holiday stating that the flight had been delayed for that period of time for us to claim off our insurance, but does anyone know if we can claim off first choice as we missed a day of our all inclusive holiday, and were extremely jet lagged due to being stuck in the airport for two days!! furthermore on the way home we were delayed for another 3 hours!!

Flashwood_Gaz

Hi there,

After a recent "rescheduling", I decided to find out my rights as regards to compensation, and stumbled on you happy chaps!

Here's the story...

Due to fly Sat 17th 10:30am

Was called Friday 16th at 4pm and told flight was "Rescheduled" until Saturday 17th 10:40PM.

Called again Friday 16th at 5pm and told further "Rescheduled" further until Sunday 18th at 1:40AM.

Checked in Saturday evening at 9:30PM to be told of further "Rescheduling" until 3:40AM.

Eventually took of at 3:55am!

Reason was "technical difficulties", and that our aircraft had been used to stand in on another route and it wasnt back yet.

Was given an £8 meal voucher each for me and my girlfriend and today received 2 £50 vouchers off a future flyglobespan flight (haha!)

From what I've read, I'm entitled to more, but WHAT? And how do I claim.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Gary

mystic_trev

Flashwood_Gaz wrote: »

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Gary

Don't fly Flyglobespan in the future (I guess you've worked that one out already!) If you use the search facility, you'll find numerous complaints from other MSE's!

As for compensation, I don't think you'll be eligible as they contacted you the day prior to the flight.

dzug1

Flashwood_Gaz wrote: »

From what I've read, I'm entitled to more, but WHAT? And how do I claim.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Gary

No you are not entitled to more unfortunately. The EU regs do not provide compensation for delays as such, only for those arising out of cancellation or over-booking.