Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

eskbanker

martinjohn said:

with regards to contacting the airline, the argument could always be made that i could of sort alternative flights, even tho we were certain none where available from the original airport / and no others would of been approriate ? (I guess i answered my own question? ) - not even relevant?

bottom line,  by not having contacted them to seek alternative flgihts with other airlines lets say, have i waived my rights to compensation for cancellation? or is it automatic regardless

just read on the CAA website that "If you received less than seven days’ notice of the cancellation, you can claim compensation based on the timings of the alternative flight", so it seems an alternative should of been sort by ringing them?

FYI i changed the flight on their system to the next available flight (from same airline/airport) which was 24hrs later

I'm still not quite sure what you're driving at, but just to be clear, when an airline cancels a flight, they're required to contact you, offering a choice between a refund or rerouting, so there's no onus on the passenger to make contact.  This relates to their obligations under article 8, but this is independent of article 7, so you're due compensation regardless of whether you took a refund or a rerouting (or even neither).

In any case, if you rebooked onto their next flight then this all seems moot anyway?

martinjohn

eskbanker said:

martinjohn said:

with regards to contacting the airline, the argument could always be made that i could of sort alternative flights, even tho we were certain none where available from the original airport / and no others would of been approriate ? (I guess i answered my own question? ) - not even relevant?

bottom line,  by not having contacted them to seek alternative flgihts with other airlines lets say, have i waived my rights to compensation for cancellation? or is it automatic regardless

just read on the CAA website that "If you received less than seven days’ notice of the cancellation, you can claim compensation based on the timings of the alternative flight", so it seems an alternative should of been sort by ringing them?

FYI i changed the flight on their system to the next available flight (from same airline/airport) which was 24hrs later

I'm still not quite sure what you're driving at, but just to be clear, when an airline cancels a flight, they're required to contact you, offering a choice between a refund or rerouting, so there's no onus on the passenger to make contact.  This relates to their obligations under article 8, but this is independent of article 7, so you're due compensation regardless of whether you took a refund or a rerouting (or even neither).

In any case, if you rebooked onto their next flight then this all seems moot anyway?

if you say the compensation for cancellation is paid out regardless of the rerouting, why does the CAA state on their website, "If your new flight departs no more than one hour before the scheduled time of your original flight AND your new flight arrives less than two hours after the scheduled time of your original flight, you are not entitled
to financial compensation"

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/cancellations/

 The point is, (again), i did not actually "speak" to them by phone with regards to rerouting, i only used their online system which (the airline suggested to use in their cancellation email), rebooked the flight as if i had requested the change myself. so have i waived my rights to compensation by not taking this opportunity to speak to them for a better rerouting option (nb. would of had to of been a different airport/airline)?

eskbanker

martinjohn said:

eskbanker said:

martinjohn said:

with regards to contacting the airline, the argument could always be made that i could of sort alternative flights, even tho we were certain none where available from the original airport / and no others would of been approriate ? (I guess i answered my own question? ) - not even relevant?

bottom line,  by not having contacted them to seek alternative flgihts with other airlines lets say, have i waived my rights to compensation for cancellation? or is it automatic regardless

just read on the CAA website that "If you received less than seven days’ notice of the cancellation, you can claim compensation based on the timings of the alternative flight", so it seems an alternative should of been sort by ringing them?

FYI i changed the flight on their system to the next available flight (from same airline/airport) which was 24hrs later

I'm still not quite sure what you're driving at, but just to be clear, when an airline cancels a flight, they're required to contact you, offering a choice between a refund or rerouting, so there's no onus on the passenger to make contact.  This relates to their obligations under article 8, but this is independent of article 7, so you're due compensation regardless of whether you took a refund or a rerouting (or even neither).

In any case, if you rebooked onto their next flight then this all seems moot anyway?

if you say the compensation for cancellation is paid out regardless of the rerouting, why does the CAA state on their website, "If your new flight departs no more than one hour before the scheduled time of your original flight AND your new flight arrives less than two hours after the scheduled time of your original flight, you are not entitled
to financial compensation"

https://www.caa.co.uk/passengers/resolving-travel-problems/delays-and-cancellations/cancellations/

 The point is, (again), i did not actually "speak" to them by phone with regards to rerouting, i only used their online system which (the airline suggested to use in their cancellation email), rebooked the flight as if i had requested the change myself. so have i waived my rights to compensation by not taking this opportunity to speak to them for a better rerouting option (nb. would of had to of been a different airport/airline)?

I think I can see where you're getting confused now!

The CAA wording applies to the scenario where the airline offers you a rerouting option that's close to the original times, but there is no obligation on the passenger to seek alternative options, so even if there was a suitably close alternative available, it only becomes relevant (to compensation) if the airline highlights it to you.

Therefore, as they didn't offer you a closely-timed flight (not least because there wasn't one anyway), nothing that you have or haven't done here waives your right to compensation....

In case of cancellation of a flight, the passengers concerned shall:

[...]

(c) have the right to compensation by the operating air carrier in accordance with Article 7, unless:

[...]

(iii) they are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing them to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach their final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eur/2004/261/article/5

170815

Dear Martin Lewis, 

Could you kindly advise me on this matter please? basically, my daughter and I travelled to Jamaica on the 31st of July 2022 on a British Airways flight direct, which cost me £2062.78 for both tickets. 

We were meant to return on 20th of August 2022, but I changed our tickets to the 21st of August, and BA charged me an additional £901 to fly me and my daughter out from Jamaica. Before I started my journey, I received a text message from BA stating that our flight was delayed from 18:50pm to 21:36pm local time Jamaican time.

BA boarded all their passengers on board and advised the reason for the initial delay and advised that there will be further delay as they don't have sufficient fuel to depart us from Jamaica. BA departed from Norman Manley International Airport at 12:36am on the 22nd of August local time. We sat on board for nearly four hours with no refreshments or food. The flight also got diverted to Shannon Ireland to top up fuel, and again, we sat on board for a further hour and a half and landed at London Gatwick at 16:36pm on the 22nd of August. Please can you advise if I'm I entitled to compensation/ a refund for my initial tickets and change of tickets as my flight was well over five hours delayed. 

Kind Regards 

(Removed by Forum Team)

eskbanker

170815 said:

Dear Martin Lewis, 

Could you kindly advise me on this matter please? basically, my daughter and I travelled to Jamaica on the 31st of July 2022 on a British Airways flight direct, which cost me £2062.78 for both tickets. 

We were meant to return on 20th of August 2022, but I changed our tickets to the 21st of August, and BA charged me an additional £901 to fly me and my daughter out from Jamaica. Before I started my journey, I received a text message from BA stating that our flight was delayed from 18:50pm to 21:36pm local time Jamaican time.

BA boarded all their passengers on board and advised the reason for the initial delay and advised that there will be further delay as they don't have sufficient fuel to depart us from Jamaica. BA departed from Norman Manley International Airport at 12:36am on the 22nd of August local time. We sat on board for nearly four hours with no refreshments or food. The flight also got diverted to Shannon Ireland to top up fuel, and again, we sat on board for a further hour and a half and landed at London Gatwick at 16:36pm on the 22nd of August. Please can you advise if I'm I entitled to compensation/ a refund for my initial tickets and change of tickets as my flight was well over five hours delayed. 

I'm not Martin Lewis, but posting on this forum isn't a viable way of reaching him personally, so you just have to put up with those of us who do respond!

In terms of your flight, a delay of that duration would qualify for fixed rate compensation unless it was "caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken [by the airline]".  Personally I think that there is an argument that localised fuel shortages at non-hub airports could easily be categorised as being outside the airline's control, but if you're saying that you were told of other reasons for delay too then much will depend on what they were - have BA rejected your compensation claim and if so, what reasoning have they provided?

Even if compensation was due, you wouldn't be eligible for any refund of your ticket costs.

Edit: removed your (presumably real) name from quote, not a good idea to include that!

Caz3121

Refund of tickets when delay is over 5 hours is relevant if the passenger opts not to travel. You can have a non-refundable ticket and if the fight is delayed over 5 hours you can opt to cancel and received a full refund even though non-refundable
As you travelled the question will be whether compensation is due...this could be £520 per passenger and will depend if the reason for the delay was within the control of the airline or not.

170815

Hi Caz3121, 
Thank you for your response, please note that we didn't have a choice as BA boarded us onto the flight and shut the plane door and kept us on ground for nearly four hours before they depart, we asked to leave as the delay per long, but they didn't acknowledge any of their passengers. I felt as if we were healed hostage.

The initial reason for the nearly three hours delay was that a passenger got ill, and they had to remove the passenger from the flight before they take off and the second reason was due to insufficient fuel.

Shouldn't BA top-up fuel before boarding their passengers onto the plane? 

170815

Dear Eskbanker, 

Thank you for your response, No BA has not rejected my claim so far, the last time that I heard from BA was on the 27th of September, and I have submitted my claim over thirteen weeks. I have forwarded my complaint to CEDR an aviation company. Regarding shortage of fuel is your personal option and not the rules of the airline also Normal Manley International Airport is not a hub. Jamaica is a well-known Caribbean Island and BA flights to Jamica four times per week. Even if there was a fuel shortage at the time it's unexpectable that we were forced to remain seated on ground with the plane door shut for nearly four with no food or drinks before taking off and we were not allowed to the leave the plane.   

eskbanker

170815 said:

No BA has not rejected my claim so far, the last time that I heard from BA was on the 27th of September, and I have submitted my claim over thirteen weeks. I have forwarded my complaint to CEDR an aviation company.

Yes, that makes sense if BA aren't responding to you anymore and it's more than eight weeks since you claimed.

170815 said:

Regarding shortage of fuel is your personal option and not the rules of the airline

The regulations aren't explicit about exactly what constitutes extraordinary circumstances, so whether or not an airport fuel shortage is considered beyond the airline's control is essentially a matter of legal interpretation, and not up to either me or BA - I made no attempt to hide the fact that I was expressing an opinion ("Personally I think that there is an argument....") but conversely it's not a matter of airline 'rules'.

Ultimately it'll be judged on a case-by-case basis, unless there are any court judgments that directly address these circumstances, and so it'll potentially be worth trying to ascertain whether or not BA had any advance notification of the shortage and, if so, if there were any reasonable mitigations applicable on a long-haul route: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/79497419/#Comment_79497419

170815 said:

Normal Manley International Airport is not a hub. Jamaica is a well-known Caribbean Island and BA flights to Jamica four times per week.

Not sure what your point is here - I said that it's not a hub [for BA] and you seem to be agreeing, although it's unclear why you feel the need to expand on where Jamaica is and how often BA flies there!  The reason for my comment was that BA would typically be held to a higher standard at Heathrow than the more remote parts of their network, i.e. they'd be expected to have greater resilience in terms of spare aircraft, crew, etc, at a main operating base, and perhaps even access to alternative fuel sources too, but elsewhere they can't reasonably be expected to cater for so many eventualities.

170815 said:

Even if there was a fuel shortage at the time it's unexpectable that we were forced to remain seated on ground with the plane door shut for nearly four with no food or drinks before taking off and we were not allowed to the leave the plane.   

I'm not trying to defend BA, but the primary issue at hand on this forum isn't how you feel you were treated by BA but the extent to which you're entitled to compensation.

MCLUCKJR6761

Hi,
Looking for some assistance. Our family had delayed flights from Jersey to Glasgow on June 25 2022 which meant a delay of more than 24 hours. I submitted the online claim form for expenses and compensation and heard nothing for three months when I was told I would need to send authority from other passengers than I could act on their behalf and resent this and paper copies of receipts which BA denied receiving. Yesterday I received an update after chasing for months via the online form and was told I needed to send boarding passes for the rescheduled flights before EU compensation would be paid. I contacted BA on 0800727800 to discuss this and the lady I spoke to refused to take ownership of this issues, told me I couldnt speak to her supervisor and refused to provide me with the name of a named individuals email address  or telephone who could take up my issue. I dont even know if I still have said boarding passes. I also asked BA for the regulator or ombudsman and again I was refused.
As I am out of pocket for 7 months I am hoping to find someone with a similar resolved issue who could advise what is the best way to pursue this issue.