Compensation for delayed flights Discussion Area

thedoberman10

eskbanker said:

thedoberman10 said:

eskbanker said:

thedoberman10 said:

eskbanker said:

thedoberman10 said:

Hi. I recently had a comp claim rejected by BA on the basis that 'when Air Traffic Control impose restrictions, delays and cancellations are inevitable.' However, the recent cap at Heathrow came into forced weeks after I booked my ticket. I suspect this may have more to do with BA's staffing issues due to their pandemic frugality. 

Not sure I'm following the logic of your middle sentence there - if there was no cap when you booked but one was subsequently introduced, then that would still plausibly be a valid reason for BA to cancel or delay flights?  Not saying it was the reason, but I just can't understand the relevance of the situation prevailing when you booked.

My apologies, I wasnt clear at all. 

The Heathrow caps came in on June 14, whereas my flight was cancelled on July 4! That makes more sense!

Sort of, but if a cap was announced on June 14, that doesn't compel the airlines to immediately decide which flights they'd cancel, so a gap between the two dates isn't necessarily significant.

My point is that if they are blaming the caps for my cancellation, they have no grounds to reject my claim given that the cap came in 10 days after my cancellation. Thus the cancellation was unrelated to the cap and was for other reasons. 

I'm completely confused about your dates now!  You said "The Heathrow caps came in on June 14, whereas my flight was cancelled on July 4" but are now saying the cancellation predated the cap?

thedoberman10 said:

My belief is based on everything I've read in the papers about lack of staff, overbooking flights, long waits for security/background checks for new staff etc. That is clearly the reason for all of this - hence why BA, EasyJet and Jet2 are cancelling so many more flights than other airlines. The issue is that I obviously cant 'prove' that they 'didnt hire enough staff' and 'overbooked flights' as those are quite subjective points and are thus hard to prove. 

Also, BA said themselves before my flight was cancelled that they took this 'pre-empitve action to protect flights', indicating that it was their decision to cancel the flights, rather than one forced upon them by ATC/Heathrow. 

IMHO general stories you read in the press won't be anything like compelling enough to counter BA's assertions about ATC restrictions, and even the reference to pre-emptive action could easily be interpreted as being in response to caps being anticipated or introduced, rather than literally being proactive unilaterally.  Long waits for security are nothing to do with the airlines, so citing that could backfire on you....

However, if you assemble stats about services into and out of Heathrow on the day in question, it should be possible to analyse whether BA's cancellation pattern was consistent with that of others - I did this myself earlier in the year when making a compensation claim, but didn't end up needing the analysis, as they paid out without a fight (so they don't reject all claims).

Anyway, going back to your original question about escalation, you can keep pushing BA until you get their final response, and then take it to their nominated ADR service, CEDR.

Sorry - I've gone absolutely insane here. Caps came in on July 14, cancellation was July 4!

Yeah, sadly I can't argue with them using info I've got from The Times/Guardian - but what the papers are saying is the truth. I have no doubt about that, thus why I'm pushing them to compensate me. They are, in reality, lying. Obv not something to base my actual case on but that is why I don't believe their hazy explanation. 

How did you find the data? I had a cursory search for it last night and couldn't fight the historical data for the date in question. What site did you use? 

Will definitely take it up with CEDR, thanks. 

Oh, and my comment about security was related to security checks for new staff, not passengers. 

thedoberman10

JPears said:

Several weeks ago, after my BA flight was cancelled, i was under the impression that LHR required airlines to cancel flights due to the cap and the airline would decide which flight would be dropped.  If that is the case then I believe that you should be due compensation as it is the airline's choice WHICH flight to cancl, ie its within their control.

However, I understand that on some days, LHR directed which flights were to be cancelled.

If you find if necessary to take the case to small claims court (preferably after CEDR) BA will have to provide proof of LHR directing them to cancel a particular flight on a particular day.

I am of the opinion, having looked at BA flight schedules, for certain routes, daily for the past few weeks, most BA cancellations are staff issues not LHR caps on flight numbers.

Yeah, am definitely going to CEDR. Just spoke to the guy on the phone and he suggested that BA/EasyJet are fobbing people off with no good reason, blaming Heathrow/Gatwick respectively for their own staffing issues. Will pursue both via that. Have you opened a claim with BA for your cancellation?

JPears

LHR did force some cancellations on Thursday 30th June.

eskbanker

thedoberman10 said:
Yeah, sadly I can't argue with them using info I've got from The Times/Guardian - but what the papers are saying is the truth. I have no doubt about that, thus why I'm pushing them to compensate me. They are, in reality, lying. Obv not something to base my actual case on but that is why I don't believe their hazy explanation. 

Yes, I don't believe there's any doubt that BA (and EasyJet) don't have enough staff, but the point is that in itself this doesn't mean that all flight cancellations are due to this.

thedoberman10 said:
How did you find the data? I had a cursory search for it last night and couldn't fight the historical data for the date in question. What site did you use? 

I used the likes of Heathrow's own site, plus FlightStats and maybe one or two others, but this only tends to be effective within a few days, although I believe that the paid version of FlightRadar24 includes more history.

thedoberman10 said:
Oh, and my comment about security was related to security checks for new staff, not passengers. 

Oh right, apologies, I misconstrued what you were saying there!

thedoberman10 said:

Yeah, am definitely going to CEDR. Just spoke to the guy on the phone and he suggested that BA/EasyJet are fobbing people off with no good reason, blaming Heathrow/Gatwick respectively for their own staffing issues. Will pursue both via that.

BA uses CEDR but EasyJet's nominated ADR provider is Aviation ADR.

thedoberman10

eskbanker said:

BA uses CEDR but EasyJet's nominated ADR provider is Aviation ADR.

Ah superb, thanks. 

Unfortunately I have just been flat-out ignored by EasyJet and BA have failed to give me a final statement. Not really sure what i can do here as the arbitration bodies need a final statement. But obviously I cant get one if I'm being blanked. Unsure of what to do really . . . 

JPears

If you provide evidence that the airline has basically shut you out, that should be good enough for  ADR or CEDR.

Lea247

I bought return flights for myself and husband from Manchester to Orlando, with outbound flight having a layover in JFK, New York. Flights were booked as one journey through Lastminute.com with the airline being Aer Lingus, but the flight from JFK to Orlando (945 miles/1520km) was operated by JetBlue. The JetBlue flight was supposed to depart JFK on at 6:30pm. However, it was delayed and the flight departed the following day at 2:00am. 

We were told it was because the plane and crew were still at another airport and were delayed there. JetBlue haven't given any more information about the delay. It wasn't possible to get on another flight as they were all fully booked. I contacted JetBlue about this and they have issued credits towards future travel with JetBlue "as a gesture of apology". I'm not sure if we should be getting cash compensation under UK/EU law or not. Can anyone help me out please?

Thank you for your help,

Louise

eskbanker

Lea247 said:

I'm not sure if we should be getting cash compensation under UK/EU law or not. 

Not - a US airline operating a domestic flight within the US isn't within the scope of those regulations, despite being booked as part of a multi-leg reservation originating in the UK.

Lea247

eskbanker said:

Lea247 said:

I'm not sure if we should be getting cash compensation under UK/EU law or not. 

Not - a US airline operating a domestic flight within the US isn't within the scope of those regulations, despite being booked as part of a multi-leg reservation originating in the UK.

Thank you for clarifying! I was totally thrown because I just had a booking number for Aer Lingus and I couldn't find any information online.

Alan_Bowen

There may in fact be liability following a judgement from the European Court in the case of 
Q, R and S v United Airlines (Case C-561/20)

The passengers had tickets issued by Lufthansa from Brussels to San Jose California connecting at New York Newark onto United Airlines. It was this flight that was delayed by United used the same excuse as above, it was not an EU airline or departing from the EU but the court held it still had liability. The court said there was no distinction between a delay in the first or second flight, so even though we have now left the EU, we have transposed the law directly into UK law and it is certainly worth having a go at JetBlue.

Incidentally, Aer Lingus fly direct from Manchester to Orlando which would have avoided the problem altogether and it seems sales haven't been great so plenty of seats at decent prices. Their flights to New York on the other hand tend to be packed!