Family law advice, can anyone help? **update**

rpc

teabag29 wrote: »

Well thats not what the solicitor said, that would be the case if they both had PR but seen as they werent married and 2 of the children were born before 2003 he does not have PR and therefore the over riding decision (if no orders are in place which at present they aren't) will be with the parent who has PR therefore it is at the discretion of the police whether or not they would remove her and knowing the mother well I would say she will probably lie to the police about my brother in order to get the children back

I thought this daughter was one he did have PR of? If not, then no he doesn't have the right in law. How the police would determine the existence of PR, I don't know.

If it were me and the daughter didn't want to go, I'd try to let her stay. The police sometimes can't tell their a**e from their elbow on the finer points of law so I wouldn't be surpised if they decided that PR was a civil matter (aka we can't be bothered to get involved) but breach of the peace would be strictly criminal. It is awkward though. I think anyone would have a hard time calling it kidnap if a girl wants to stay with her dad, regardless of PR and especially so when civil proceedings on the matter are pending.

PR should be automatic and easy to obtain, but it is another step.

teabag29

No its the youngest he has pr over as she was born after 2003, its the eldest who wants to stay with him, shes 12. He rang social services and explained the situation and they said they will ring back when somebody is free

teabag29

Goodness me s.services never did ring back and things took a turn for the worse, the childrens mother rang up shouting swearing and threatening demanding that the daughter be returned home immediately (this was around 22.00), to cut a long story short she had my niece in floods of tears and petrified. My brother rang the police as this is the only way that my niece would settle as she wanted reassurance that the maternal family would not come and get her, they advised to ring 999 if they turn up.

My brother managed to record some of the call incase its needed for evidence (he didnt manage to speak much but remained calm, she was screaming at him and her daughter swearing and making threats etc) to show exactly what the childrens mothers nasty side is like. Now he is just worried incase he doesnt get the interim residence order granted tomorrow.
Bearing in mind that his daughter is 12 and is competent to chose which parent she wants to live with, the daugter has revealed abuse allegations by her mother and maternal grand parents to both her and her younger brother which has made her scared of them and also the aggressive phone call thats been recorded, am I right in thinking he has a good chance of getting the interim order to stop the daughter being removed for the time being? I do hope so she's petrified poor little mite

Erinnire

You'd hope so, poor little thing.

Do you know why the mother rang if ss or the police hadn't got in touch with her or your brother?

teabag29

She rang because the boy wanted to speak to his dad to say goodnight then she asked when daughter was coming home and daughter told her she was enjoying it with her dad and wasnt ready to come home so she began screaming that she wanted her home immediately then swearing and telling her she didnt care what she wanted (the daughter) its not up to her and telling her shes in trouble when she gets home, she was screaming so loud she couldnt put her ear to the phone and she had her in floods of tears so her dad took the phone and asked her to calm down and no need for this but she told him f**k you and hung up but before doing this said that 'they' will be coming over to pick her up (I assume she means her brothers). Luckily they did not turn up lastnight so hes applying for an interim emergency residency and parental responsibility this morning but the girl is scared incase he doesnt get it and she has to go back there

teabag29

Well he went to court and it was seen very quickly. Judge said he couldnt grant the residency or PR today and that he totally sympathised but that it needs transferring to the court in the area ex now lives (80 miles away) and he has passed it on for urgent direction hearing. In the meantime though he has granted an order that the eldest daughter is not to be removed from the fathers care (phew). He explained that he knows the judges in that area very well and he will be writing in the case notes the urgency and situation and he assured my brother that they will look after him and pr should deffo be granted at the next hearing and the issues of safety with the younger 2 children will be addressed. He has also finally managed to speak to social services who have taken all the details (he also informed them of the order that was granted today) and are going to investigate. He has to serve the papers on his ex himself so is going to send them recorded delivery tomorrow (he wants to wait until s.services have had a chance to speak to his son first because he knows if the ex realises that we know about the abuse she will manipulate her son to keep quiet about it and lie for her).
I realise that legal aid is still available in cases of domestic violence so im wondering if this case will come under that seen as shes been violent to the children, having a solicitor would be very advantageous.

Anyway my niece is beyond relieved now that she knows (for now atleast) that she is safe and wont be forced to return to her mum, poor mite wet the bed lastnight she was so scared.

Erinnire

teabag29 wrote: »

Well he went to court and it was seen very quickly. Judge said he couldnt grant the residency or PR today and that he totally sympathised but that it needs transferring to the court in the area ex now lives (80 miles away) and he has passed it on for urgent direction hearing. In the meantime though he has granted an order that the eldest daughter is not to be removed from the fathers care (phew). He explained that he knows the judges in that area very well and he will be writing in the case notes the urgency and situation and he assured my brother that they will look after him and pr should deffo be granted at the next hearing and the issues of safety with the younger 2 children will be addressed. He has also finally managed to speak to social services who have taken all the details (he also informed them of the order that was granted today) and are going to investigate. He has to serve the papers on his ex himself so is going to send them recorded delivery tomorrow (he wants to wait until s.services have had a chance to speak to his son first because he knows if the ex realises that we know about the abuse she will manipulate her son to keep quiet about it and lie for her).
I realise that legal aid is still available in cases of domestic violence so im wondering if this case will come under that seen as shes been violent to the children, having a solicitor would be very advantageous.

Anyway my niece is beyond relieved now that she knows (for now atleast) that she is safe and wont be forced to return to her mum, poor mite wet the bed lastnight she was so scared.

No idea about legal aid but glad something has been done today and your niece is safe. This might be a bit extreme but is there scope for brother and niece to stay with family for a couple of nights if the mother kicks off and threatens with her family turning up?

How quickly do they think the other things will be looked at sending it up to the court nearest the little ones?

teabag29

Yes hes stopping at my mums for a few nightsjust in case and my other brother lives 2 minutes away from there if needed.

They put it down for eurgent direction ans said it was sent off electronically today but it will take atleast 48 hrs to sort so doubt it will be until next week but atleast s.services are aware.

My brother is a little worried about the cost and time of getting over to each court case as its £65 train fair each way and he'll be hard pushed to get there for a 10am hearing due due to the distance and train change over (he doesnt drive). As he is off work due to sickness he is awaiting an esa claim to go through so currently has no income so not sure how we'll get round this, I have lent him the money for todays hearing application (£215) and mum has lent him some money to make sure he has enough food etc for his daughter whilst hes awaiting his claim to be processed. Not sure if there is any help he can get with that side of things, should he being making a claim for tax credits/child benefit or should that wait to see if he foes get permanent residence as the mother currently claims those for all 3 children?

RAS

teabag29 wrote: »

He has to serve the papers on his ex himself so is going to send them recorded delivery tomorrow (he wants to wait until s.services have had a chance to speak to his son first because he knows if the ex realises that we know about the abuse she will manipulate her son to keep quiet about it and lie for her).

Serving papers by recorded delivery may not work.

1. She will refuse to sign for them.
2. If they are signed for there is strong likelihood that one of the other adults will sign and can easily say that they do not know what happened to the papers so she never received them.

If is isa legal to send a photocopy send two copied to her from two different post offices and get two free certificates of posting. Courts regard items sent first class as served two days after this as one might get liost but not both. He could cover all bases by sebnding c/o the grandparents as well.

teabag29

Well to say im shocked is an understatement. The social services have finally rang my brother back and told him they wont be going to visit the ex as they dont see it as abuse..... the mother threw her 10 yr old son across the floor and bruised him and slapped her daughter hard across the face, the grandparents hit the children hard and then raised the grandfather raised his hand to punch the boy, he also pulled the 6 year olds hair back so tht they were cheek to cheek and threatened her and the childrens mother has been threatening the daughter over the phone telling her how much trouble she will be in when she gets home (shouting swearing etc) to the point the poor girl is petrified and even wet the bed and social services arent even going to pay a visit. This is crazy.
Will this now affect the emergency directions hearing, as in, will the judge look at it differently and see the children are at risk or we he dismiss thats theres a risk as social services havent taken up the case? I know social workers have alot on and under alot of pressure but this seems ridiculous to me, what if next time its worse and they get harmed seriously? its taken alot for my niece to finally open up about whats been happening and now it seems as if its all been for nothing and now shes petrified that she'll be sent back to live with her mother becuase s.services havent deemed it a risk