Family law advice, can anyone help? **update**

teabag29

trevorsminted wrote: »

Why cant he get legal aid to fight to get his kids from that woman? Surely he is entitled she sounds awful.

Legal aid isnt available anymore as of April only in the cases of domestic violence but then it has to be proven i.e. a criminal conviction

[Deleted User]

Hi Teabag

I am not doubting you've done your best not to show feelings unfortunately most of us pick those feelings up and I'd put money one it that she has and as a result chosen her course of action.

I don't want to suggest that any one person is right because being the 'ex wife' I know what I've been through and as a consequence of my situation I've met other people in the same boat so I understand their reasoning. I'm not saying there aren't people who take advantage of this to get their own own way and I could see that some would think I've taken the ex wife's side. However, I have met men and I have had partners and my current partner who's been on the other side.. A lot of these situations arise because one partner has been dishonest and treated the other partner badly. These hurts go very deep and to my mind they must be sorted out between the two people involved in order for both of them to move forward Unfortunately, for you you can't do much about that. Yes, someone might be to blame - it might be your brother or it might be her and the degress might vary. The other thing I've observed is that blame isn't always the problem. Sometimes cowardice is. Maybe she couldn't face telling him for whatever reason. Some people for instance only jump ship on their marriages when they've got someone else to go to otherwise they'd have stayed. At Relationships are complicated.

I can tell you that from what I've observed in my marriage and in my subsequent relationships that the party with the most guilt is the one saying 'get a life or move on and put the children first'. Sometimes, the guilty party can't face their guilt and moves away and sometimes the guilty party wishes to avoid their guilt by saying the other party should not be withholding access, money, etc. I very firmly believe that when that relationship is dealt with both parties are able to move and both are able to see more clearly what is in the best interests of the family.

What I don't think people realise is that a break up doesn't involve two people. It involves children, the grandparents, the aunts/uncles and wider family and even the friends. We've all heard instances where the wider families and friends have chosen a side.

My advice to you is:

1. Don't pay too much attention to either. You've known both of them and you've clearly been friends of both of them. To some extent your ex friend is going to be suspicious of you.

2. Your brother rightly or wrongly is the one who is going to have to put himself out and she needs to see that he and his family is willing to go the extra mile.

3. Lots of people see 'justice' differently but the fact is that not all of those people come with 'clean hands' as they say ie they are at fault and when their ex partner retaliates eg withholding access or money they 'don't know why'. Be very careful about involving yourself in their stories.

4. Think carefully in your instance about why she might have moved. I'm not saying discount purely selfish interests on her part but I am saying try to understand them. May be she might need the unconditional support she is getting them in terms of moral, emotional and financial and consider if she would really have had those needs met by her ex's family. Sure you would have done your best by the children but what about her. She has needs too.

3. Do look at other sites for advice such as Wikivorce but always consider the past experience and the agenda of the poster. Many people have done the dirty on their ex, left the ex holding the baby so to speak, want their full rights but don't want the full responsibility either financial or emotional eg they may be willing to see their kids once a fortnight but when a cut price holiday comes up that interferes with that they'd rather take the holiday than have their children and lose the holiday.

4. Look at your brother as a human being with all his good points and his failings and his ex in the same way.

5. Ultimately, she's got 24/7 and no maintenance from him so is it really unreasonable for her to want to move to get a bit of extra help?

6. Only you can answer these questions in your heart of hearts.

7. I'd say to you, mainly because I'm having trouble with this post and making alterations - be kind to her, be kind to him. Try to understand and try to show consideration and understanding emotionally but also this comes down to cold hard facts - where is the support, who is giving that support and to whom, what are the limitations to that support because being a single parent is pretty hard and the families of ex's generally are willing to help the kids but not the ex. Sadly, that is not much use to those of us doing the 24/7 on low paid jobs and we need a bit more because when we have done our job we are on the scrap heap as far as the ex's family is concerned. We do what we do for love our our children however, our personal futures are bleak.

I'm trying to show the other side to you because it isn't easy. My other main point is to show her that you understand. In doing that you will accomplish a lot more for your family (she and her children are part of your family and I don't mean she's the poor relation I really mean that she as the mother of those children is an vital and integral part of your family) and you need to find a way of proving that to her and actually your brother does.

Once you do that - he does that - I think you'll find the split moves from acrimonious to amicable and the children follow suit. She will find it as easy to live close to you as to live 70 or 80 miles away. His problems becomes ones she's more amenable to finding a solution to eg finding him somewhere to stay, finding a way to help easy the financial burden of travelling or once the children are old enough letting them travel part or the whole way to meet him.

Finally, if I haven't said it because problems posting please beware some sites - some want you to fight the fight and will give you incentives to fight their battles too. They have their agendas. Take the good advice and leave the rest. This is about human beings and their feelings and those you can never win. Finding solutions and giving each person their due will lead to more satisfactory results for the whole family.

All the best Teabag in dealing with your own situation.

chipmunk

teabag29 wrote: »

Well they aren't married but were together for 14 years and he is on all the birth certificates

If his name is on all their birth certificates then he has PR for all of them.

zzzLazyDaisy

chipmunk wrote: »

If his name is on all their birth certificates then he has PR for all of them.

No that is not true. That applies to the youngest but not the two older ones as the law was different then. This has already been covered in this thread.

brenda10

teabag29 wrote: »

No you are misunderstanding me. Firstly yes seen as she stole all his money I do believe she should give it him back yes, why not?

Secondly if a joint custody agreement is made then surely yes he should be entitled to some benefits for the children, if she is being paid for them for 7 days but only having them for 4 then surely she could contribute a little to their train fair, she is being paid to keep them for 7 days after all either that ot he should be entitled to a part of the child tax credit/benefit for the 3 days he has them. Its not his fault he has a health condition and his esa would not cover the train fair, if he is jointly looking after them then why is it unreasonable that he doesnt get some help financially just as she does off the government? I know another couple who share care and the tax credits get shared between them which seems only fair to me.

Thirdly maintenance hasnt been set up yet but she did leave taking all his wages and with the tax rebate he got he gave the children £50 and bought them new clothes etc and finally he does not have any income now or any money. He has moved back into the home to look after the dog she left behind and discovered that whilst he was working (prior to getting ill) and entrusting her to sort the bills etc (which is why he put his wages into her account) she had secretly cancelled all d.debits and so now he has had a bundle of red letters through informing him that the d.debits were cancelled and he is at risk of being cut off. I have rang around and tried to explain the situation and put payment plans in place for when his benefit claim is up and running but his phone and internet have been cut off in the meantime.
The tenancy will end next week as she took her name off and thats when he will be given a repossession order and will have to move out although they should be able to rehouse him in a 1 bed flat so he wont be homeless thankfully.

He was only living with my mum so that she could have the house and also to help care for my mum who has cancer (my father is nolonger alive)

I empathise completely with you, sound like the mother is not a mother but a monster to her children, she has ripped your brother off and now bad mouthing him, family sound like a pack of wierdos, grandfather scaring the children, HOUSE OF HORRORSI am a female and I know of these types of females, they shouldn't be parents. Good Luck
The good news is your children are at the age where they know what is going on and that your brother is the goodie in all of this, they will choose him over her, in time.

teabag29

Following on from this thread (thanks for all the advice) there has been an update. So my niece has spent her b'day with her dad and had a lovely weekend, however she has been getting increasingly frustrated about going back to her mum.

My brother sat her down today and had a heart to heart with her (telling her how the distance wont change anythin g and that he'll still see her all the time and phone her and loves her just as much as he always did etc and that in time she will settle in) and she began to open up to him and things are now even more complicated.

Basically she has opened up about why she wants to live with her dad and not go back to her mum..... it seems that aside from bundling her into a car mid week after school with no warning or chance to say bye to her dad or friends and move her 80 miles away to a strange place 7 weeks ago (and still put no schooling in place) that there has also been violence against the children. To cut a long story short the maternal grandmother has smacked my nephew very hard twice causing him to scream and run off and then the grandfather ran after him and pinned him up and went to hit him until the mother told him to just leave it, this was in full view of my niece who was too scared to stand up to him (my nephew is only 10). The week before this the grandfather also assaulted his other grand daughter (my nieces cousin) who is only 6 by pulling her hair back so they were cheek to cheek and threatening her making her cry and scared and locked in the bedroom all day, again in full view of my niece and nephew.

My niece has opened up alot about things shes been hiding because shes been too afraid to tell (threats made by her mum that contact with dad will stop if she tells him whats happened, calls on loud speaker, getting my niece to pick her bro up from school because she cant be bothered and going to her sisters every night with the children and getting drunk and shouting and threatening the children amongst other things).

She is adament that she does not want to go back to her mum and is very worried/scared of the possibility of having to do so, she is also (as my brother now is) worried about her brother and whether or not he is safe as she knows he is too scared to tell her on the phone because he is on loudspeaker.

My brother does not know what to do for the best so today consulted the child law advice line who advised him to put in for parental responsibility and residence order together (if he wants residency as the daughter is adament she wants to live with her dad and is 12 so is gillick competent) and that if he is worried about the safety of his son and other daughters safety (10 and 2) that he should put his application through as an emergency which will hopefully be looked at this week.

He is unsure what to do because although he would love to have his daughter live with him if thats what she wants, he doesnt want to a) split up his son from his ex if his son wants to stay with her and b) risk the application being declined and his ex demanding his daughter be returned home as she is petrified, at the same time he is obviously worried about their safety particularly at the hands of their maternal grandparents and the fact that their mum hasnt protected them.

He doesnt know what to do for the best and im not sure what to advise

ValHaller

teabag29 wrote: »

Following on from this thread (thanks for all the advice) there has been an update.

Why have you pasted all this over your opening post? Rather than just adding to that post to say there have been new developments and to see your latest post?

Now, if anyone new comes along - or anyone already involved in the thread needs to refresh their memory, there is a lot of important context information missing. Something as complex as this situation needs more than a snap shot to do better than give kneejerk reactions. And kneejerk reactions won't help here.

teabag29

ValHaller wrote: »

Why have you pasted all this over your opening post? Rather than just adding to that post to say there have been new developments and to see your latest post?

Now, if anyone new comes along - or anyone already involved in the thread needs to refresh their memory, there is a lot of important context information missing. Something as complex as this situation needs more than a snap shot to do better than give kneejerk reactions. And kneejerk reactions won't help here.

Because then it would have been very very long and less likely for people to read so just posted the update but people who have commented on the original have quoted it so it will still be viewable under that (if that makes sense)

Erinnire

Tell him to as the solicitor says. That's the only way he is going to be able to move forward.

ValHaller

teabag29 wrote: »

Because then it would have been very very long and less likely for people to read so just posted the update but people who have commented on the original have quoted it so it will still be viewable under that (if that makes sense)

Not in the first 2 pages, they haven't quoted AFAICS. I read the original originally. I want to refresh myself on the details and I can't, because the base line is gone. The stuff you posted instead of the original is confusing and largely meaningless to me without the original. And to cap it all, we have the update twice over.

I'm sure others will feel much the same, but probably won't even bother to comment