Family law advice, can anyone help? **update**

teabag29

Ok well basically my brother and his ex split, he moved to my mums down the road. After a few weeks she upped and left with the children (theres 3 aged 2,10 and 12) 80 miles away without letting the children say goodbye to their friends or family. They have not been in school since. Contact with my brother was with held for a month and the ex would answer calls as and when she felt like it and ignore calls for weeks at a time.

After a month she told my brother to come and get the kids the following day (for the weekend) or he wont be seeing them again, this turned into a week which he was pleased about. When they were due to go home the eldest did not want to go and asked for another week to spend her b'day with her dad, the mother was not happy and shouted at her and made her cry and then ignord her calls for 2 days.

Over the week my niece has opened up about why she doesnt want to go back to her mum and whats been going on (some things that have happened even before they moved) including some violence to the children. The ex was quite emotionally abusive to my brother for part of the relationship but he wasnt aware of any violence except for one occasion when she hit her daughter across the face as he came in from work (he made it very clear to her then that if he ever laid a finger on their daughter again he would not hesitate in phoning the police/social services and spoke at length to her).

The relationship between both parents was beyond repair at the end and a split is definately the best thing they did. My brother has not set up maintenence yet as he is off work sick and waiting for a claim to be processed but he has provided for the children directly (has bought them all new clothes, toys, nappies, phone top up and given them pocket money).
He does not have PR for the older 2 yet as they were not married and born before 2003. The daughter is adament she wants to stay with her dad as she feels scared of her mum and her mums family and does not feel at home there and feels happier with her dad, she has been back with her dad for 2 weeks now but hasnt told her mum yet that she wants to stay with her dad permanently, she says shes too scared to tell her.

The other 2 children are back with their mum but given the recent information from my niece, my brother is now concerned for their safety and the ability of their mother to keep them safe.

ValHaller

No schooling? Strikes me that the ex is angling in a disordered way to have the kids taken off her, but without getting caught out for hitting them or whatever.

Is brother up for being the single father? Difficult at this point with the school hols to take this forward as non attendance at shool

teabag29

He would definately be up for it but hes not sure its the right thing, he would feel bad taking them from their mum but their safety is obviously paramount. He did ring education welfare after 2 weeks to cover himself and they said they would look into it but then a week later school holidays began.

rpc

teabag29 wrote: »

My brother does not know what to do for the best so today consulted the child law advice line who advised him to put in for parental responsibility and residence order together (if he wants residency as the daughter is adament she wants to live with her dad and is 12 so is gillick competent) and that if he is worried about the safety of his son and other daughters safety (10 and 2) that he should put his application through as an emergency which will hopefully be looked at this week.

He is unsure what to do because although he would love to have his daughter live with him if thats what she wants, he doesnt want to a) split up his son from his ex if his son wants to stay with her and b) risk the application being declined and his ex demanding his daughter be returned home as she is petrified, at the same time he is obviously worried about their safety particularly at the hands of their maternal grandparents and the fact that their mum hasnt protected them.

So he is weighing the fact that mummy gives them sweeties to keep son on-side against the beatings that they receive? Mum knows about and ignores the abuse, so she is just as culpable. If dad lets it continue, he is just as guilty.

He must apply for PR and residence asap, with the help of wikivorce and FNF. He was told that yesterday and if this was my kids, I've have been straight onto it and not slept until it was done. It shouldn't take long to get the initial paperwork assembled.

He should also report daughter's revelations to the police/social services. Do not confront mum with it, that will just put the kids on the spot and cause all sorts of trouble. Leave it to the professionals.

He would definately be up for it but hes not sure its the right thing, he would feel bad taking them from their mum but their safety is obviously paramount.

He's not sure if removing the children from an abusive home is the right thing? She may not be hitting them herself, but she is letting them get abused. It may be that she's a good mum but can't stand up to her parents, if that's the case then she needs professional help.

Whatever the solution, it looks like he is the only one who is willing to do something. Get the court forms in!

teabag29

Thanks for the advice ladies, hes been busy all morning on phone to court and getting legal advice etc. He is now on his way to the police station with his daughter to report what she revealed to him and going to ring social services if neccessary (though i think the police will automatically do this). He has spoken to court and basically the emergency order is able to be done without the mother present and will be a short term thing where the children will reside with him atleast until the next hearing (if its granted). He's downloaded the forms to fill in and has to be at court at 10am tomorrow to register the case and they should hear it tomorrow, he is going to ask for residency of all 3 children (although understands that he is unlikely to be granted residency of the younger 2 long term but his priority is their immediate safety for now).

How long will the police/social services take to investigate these allegations? Obviously he wants them to make sure the children are safe straight away but he's also wary that if they go around straight away that once they have left, the childs mother will demand her daughter home tonight and he cannot get an emergency order granted until tomorrow morning so cannot stop her taking the daughter tonight

Triker

teabag29 wrote: »

Thanks for the advice ladies, hes been busy all morning on phone to court and getting legal advice etc. He is now on his way to the police station with his daughter to report what she revealed to him and going to ring social services if neccessary (though i think the police will automatically do this). He has spoken to court and basically the emergency order is able to be done without the mother present and will be a short term thing where the children will reside with him atleast until the next hearing (if its granted). He's downloaded the forms to fill in and has to be at court at 10am tomorrow to register the case and they should hear it tomorrow, he is going to ask for residency of all 3 children (although understands that he is unlikely to be granted residency of the younger 2 long term but his priority is their immediate safety for now).

How long will the police/social services take to investigate these allegations? Obviously he wants them to make sure the children are safe straight away but he's also wary that if they go around straight away that once they have left, the childs mother will demand her daughter home tonight and he cannot get an emergency order granted until tomorrow morning so cannot stop her taking the daughter tonight

The police and social services will jointly conduct a section 47 investigation, if seen as necessary the police can issue a PPO, Police Protection Order, until the hearing tomorrow.

teabag29

ok thats good, not sure what the laws are around smacking chldren (I dont smack I dont feel it teaches anything and sends out the wrong message, i think smacking a child is more down to the parents frustration and temper rather than trying to teach them right from wrong) and how serious the police will take it, are the grandparents by law allowed to smack his bum hard? I would deffo think pulling the 6 year olds hair back is going too far but not sure what the rules are around grandparents smacking their grand children. At the very least hopefully this will make them think twice about doing it again

rpc

Good going.

Smacking is only legal where it is reasonable punishment. More detailed guidance is here (England and Wales only): http://www.childrenslegalcentre.com/userfiles/Smacking.pdf

Unless a court order in is place, he has no obligation to let daughter go home with mum. He does not have to grant her entry and the police should not take her (it is a civil dispute). If she kicks off, the police could arrest her for breach of the peace.

We aren't all ladies here...

teabag29

rpc wrote: »

Unless a court order in is place, he has no obligation to let daughter go home with mum. He does not have to grant her entry and the police should not take her (it is a civil dispute). If she kicks off, the police could arrest her for breach of the peace.
.

Well thats not what the solicitor said, that would be the case if they both had PR but seen as they werent married and 2 of the children were born before 2003 he does not have PR and therefore the over riding decision (if no orders are in place which at present they aren't) will be with the parent who has PR therefore it is at the discretion of the police whether or not they would remove her and knowing the mother well I would say she will probably lie to the police about my brother in order to get the children back

teabag29

Well got to say I am shocked and disappointed by the reaction of the police. My brother went into the station to report the assaults and ask for it to be investigated and they didnt even write anything down or speak to the child. They asked what he wanted to happen and was he looking for them to be proscecuted to which he replied he wasnt sure how it worked but he wanted it investigating and wants to make sure his children are safe from now on too. He was told that he needed to ring social services in that area and they will go check it out and if they feel they are in danger they will contct the police and they'll take it from there...... this seems crazy, an assault (well more than 1 actually) has already taken place so why do they need to wait. Anyway he is now going through social services.