Can narcissists change?

malcumms7898

pukkamum wrote: »

I too thought that it is just a nasty personality but the duality of it, one minute charming, generous, lovely etc, the next minute screaming banshee, strikes me as more than just a personality trait, I'm not saying I would describe it as mental illness but perhaps it is?

That sounds a bit like psychopathy.

stir_crazy

Manchee wrote: »

I think any illness, especially invisible illnesses, deserved to be treated with respect, and the individuals suffering from them don't deserve to be brushed under the carpet. Shame on this kind of attitude.

I do agree that mental illness deserves to be treated with respect and understanding. However, and this is probably ignorance on my part, narcissism does seem to me like a trait rather than a mental illness, and seems to be part of a person's personality. ie, that it is something that a person can change if they realise they have the problem, rather than something that can be treated or managed. I don't mean to be offensive with that comment, its just my perception of it.

pukkamum

stir_crazy wrote: »

My dad has 4 brothers and sisters ahttps://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4401749I would say that 4 out of the 5 of them are narcissists to varying degrees.

It's now come to a head between myself and my dad where I'm not sure if we can really have a good relationship any more. The last time we spoke he said some awful things and I know that he's expecting me to come round again and act like nothing happened.

I recently had the same with my sister and did thread about it https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4401749
We have recently made up, with out any apology from her, but I cannot lose my nephews and I can't let my kids lose their cousins, hence my thread now.

pukkamum

stir_crazy wrote: »

I do agree that mental illness deserves to be treated with respect and understanding. However, and this is probably ignorance on my part, narcissism does seem to me like a trait rather than a mental illness, and seems to be part of a person's personality. ie, that it is something that a person can change if they realise they have the problem, rather than something that can be treated or managed. I don't mean to be offensive with that comment, its just my perception of it.

I can see where you are coming from but as a huge part of having this disorder is that they are utterly convinced that everyone else is wrong and they are right and their inability to even admit their true feelings to themselves I wonder if they can ever change themselves.

pukkamum

malcumms7898 wrote: »

That sounds a bit like psychopathy.

Haha sometimes I'd be inclined to agree but it isn't quite as instant as I make out, the banshee comes out in a calculated, cold way, generally not to your face but via email text etc, although she has no conpunctions about telling you to your face how much you have let her down etc it is still done in a calculated way.

stir_crazy

pukkamum wrote: »

I can see where you are coming from but as a huge part of having this disorder is that they are utterly convinced that everyone else is wrong and they are right and their inability to even admit their true feelings to themselves I wonder if they can ever change themselves.

I didn't really phrase it properly. I was watching a BBC Horizon program last night with Michael Mosely about personalities and whether it was possible to change them and thats what I was thinking of when I wrote that post.

Manchee

stir_crazy wrote: »

I do agree that mental illness deserves to be treated with respect and understanding. However, and this is probably ignorance on my part, narcissism does seem to me like a trait rather than a mental illness, and seems to be part of a person's personality. ie, that it is something that a person can change if they realise they have the problem, rather than something that can be treated or managed. I don't mean to be offensive with that comment, its just my perception of it.

Narcissism isn't a trait, not like being cheeky or being thoughtful is. It (NPD) is something that controls the sufferer, not the otherway around. Its not something you can just shake off, its generally thought of as being treatable but not curable.

Acc72

Manchee wrote: »

I think any illness, especially invisible illnesses, deserved to be treated with respect, and the individuals suffering from them don't deserve to be brushed under the carpet.

I agree with the above 100%.

However, I would say that "these days" everything is explainable by a diagnosis - thereby everybody has a reason (excuse?) to behave in a certain way.

eg. not every person who acts in a certain way is a "narcisist" - they could just be spolit, or selfish etc. and by giving their behaviour a label then it almost excuses their behaviour because they "can't help it".

Just in the same way that not every child who acts a bit naughty from time to time has ADHD.


Disclaimer before the usual comments : The above in no way detracts from those individuals who have been diagnosed with narcisism and/or ADHD.

pukkamum

Acc72 wrote: »

I agree with the above 100%.

However, I would say that "these days" everything is explainable by a diagnosis - thereby everybody has a reason (excuse?) to behave in a certain way.

eg. not every person who acts in a certain way is a "narcisist" - they could just be spolit, or selfish etc. and by giving their behaviour a label then it almost excuses their behaviour because they "can't help it".

Just in the same way that not every child who acts a bit naughty from time to time has ADHD.


Disclaimer before the usual comments : The above in no way detracts from those individuals who have been diagnosed with narcisism and/or ADHD.

I had never even considered the narcissism side to her til I read about other's with many of the traits and when I looked at how narcissism is diagnosed, there are very specific traits, she displays very clearly all 9 of them, narcissistic personality disorder is diagnosed when 5 of the traits are displayed.

Manchee

Acc72 wrote: »

I agree with the above 100%.

However, I would say that "these days" everything is explainable by a diagnosis - thereby everybody has a reason (excuse?) to behave in a certain way.

eg. not every person who acts in a certain way is a "narcisist" - they could just be spolit, or selfish etc. and by giving their behaviour a label then it almost excuses their behaviour because they "can't help it".

Just in the same way that not every child who acts a bit naughty from time to time has ADHD.


Disclaimer before the usual comments : The above in no way detracts from those individuals who have been diagnosed with narcisism and/or ADHD.

I have to say I do totally agree with this, people can display characteristics or certain traits of some mental health disorders without having that condition. For instance I am sure we have all known people who seem to be unable to emphasis with others or individuals who seem very self involved or have a very exaggerated view of themselves, maybe we would describe them as being 'narcissistic', but they wouldn't necessarily be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder.

OP, your sister, has she ever been evaluated regarding her mental health? You were wondering how children brought up by a care-giver with NPD were affected. Have you posted any questions on any forums that deal directly with NPD and other mental health issues? Tbh, apart from the moral support that MSE gives, I would think you're far more likely to find people who can answer questions and give advice about such a difficult and personal situation on on a forum that is more specialised.