Can narcissists change?

sassyblue

Callie, OMG your FIL sounds awful! Your poor OH x

meritaten

pukkamum wrote: »

I agree meritaten, I was chatting with mum about it and I could see mum almost being glad of some reason to yet again excuse her terrible behaviour, I feel I am very much in a catch 22 situation, to refuse to pander to her demands will inevitably lead to anger and recriminations on her part and cause problems in the family, however, if I go with the old way of doing things to keep the peace I will end up resentful and angry.
I have managed to let go of a lot of bad feelings from my past and don't want to there again, I did end up making the first contact as per, after our last blow up and I know in her eyes this is her 'winning' as she has got me back without any apology on her behalf but I could not bear seeing my mum so upset.
I really am between a rock and a hard place as it is my nature to be nice to everyone and not hold grudges but this inevitably leads to being treated like a doormat.

Yes if she is anything like my MIL then any 'bad' behaviour can be excused by 'I cant help it - Its this very rare disorder I suffer from NPD, they cant cure it you know'!
another poster had it right when they said the diagnosis helps the family more than the er 'sufferer'? I use that term advisedly as actually the narcissist isn't suffering - they just want you to think they are!

pukkamum

sassyblue wrote: »

Pukkamum, May l say something.... that you might already know? You seem to know how to handle your sister but your mum is your problem in not letting you deal with sister how you want to....

What did your mum do or say at your sisters last outburst and how you coped with it?

Mum is definately an enabler to her behaviour just as she was with my dad, her reaction?
Oh she doesn't mean it ( when she told me I was never to see any of her family again) she was ill, she was depressed, she isn't happy etc etc.
Her way of dealing with my sister has always been to just go along with whatever she demands for fear of sisters retribution and she expects me to do the same because I have done so for so many years.
Mum is instrumental in many of our arguments, saying one thing to me then going along with her.

meritaten

Has it ever occurred to you that mum 'trained' your sister to behave that way?

pukkamum

meritaten wrote: »

Has it ever occurred to you that mum 'trained' your sister to behave that way?

Oh yes I know that mum felt terribly guilty when dad left as my sister was very traumatised by it and as a result she was very much allowed to behave however she wanted, she was a 'difficult' child and got a lot of attention for it.
She plays my mum like a puppet, heaping guilt when mum doesn't want to go along with her, to the extent that mum now drops everything and does a 2hr 3 train journey to stay with her for days on end if sister demands it.
Mum even immediately starts apologising for gifts she has bought her as she hands them over saying I was the one who picked it and she would take it back if wrong (sister at 40 still gives her a list of acceptable presents).

meritaten

mum felt guilty? no hun, narcissists never feel guilty! mum was just raising her in HER image! your sisters behaviour actually makes mum feel vindicated. You are projecting how you would feel onto your mums behaviour. I see it differently. your mum loves the way your sis behaves - she can make out that she is the 'peacemaker' and she 'sacrifices' so much to keep your sis happy. that way the rest of the family think 'poor so and so, her DD treats her so badly and she is nothing but nice to her'! so mum gets a lot of attention and sympathy and everyone bends over backwards for her - cos she is so 'nice' to her spoilt brat - and who spoilt the brat in the first place?

pukkamum

meritaten wrote: »

mum felt guilty? no hun, narcissists never feel guilty! mum was just raising her in HER image! your sisters behaviour actually makes mum feel vindicated. You are projecting how you would feel onto your mums behaviour. I see it differently. your mum loves the way your sis behaves - she can make out that she is the 'peacemaker' and she 'sacrifices' so much to keep your sis happy. that way the rest of the family think 'poor so and so, her DD treats her so badly and she is nothing but nice to her'! so mum gets a lot of attention and sympathy and everyone bends over backwards for her - cos she is so 'nice' to her spoilt brat - and who spoilt the brat in the first place?

Very interesting points you have raised, I have never really looked at it that way at all and thinking now I excuse a lot of my mum's behaviour too, I recently had a conversation with her regarding my stepdads behaviour towards me, she claims not to have know what was going on asking why I didn't tell her at the time.
She did know, there is no way she couldn't have, she bends history to assuage her guilt and I am accused of being an hysterical drama queen, I'm pretty sure the first thing she will have said to sis when we fell out were, well you know how sensitive and dramatic pukkamum can be, despite her being the one who forced my hand and created the argument.
However, I live my mum dearly, she is a wonderful nana and a huge support to me so I guess I am guilty of closing my eyes to her behaviour too.
Oh what a tangled web parents can weave.
Its true what they say; parents, they f***k you up, I'm surprised I'm not a nutjob!

marisco_2

In my experience people who have narcissistic tendencies, choose not to accept or believe that there is anything wrong with the way they conduct themselves. To their mind everyone else is in the wrong entirely. You will never change them and they rarely mellow or improve with age. All you can do if you wish to maintain contact, and have some semblance of a relationship with them, is to insulate yourself from the worst they throw at you.

Vicky123

Pretty much catch 22 with this condition, those who have it really need to seek therapy but those who seek therapy probably don't really have it.
Narcissistic personalities by definition think they are just fine and everyone else has a problem.

Raksha

You can't change anyone who doesn't want to xhange, but you can change the way you react to them.