Can narcissists change?

pukkamum

Raksha wrote: »

You can't change anyone who doesn't want to xhange, but you can change the way you react to them.

But which is the right reaction, to disagree causes huge rows and fallout, to go along with them brings resentment and dislike.
I am coming to the conclusion that any close, intimate relationship with a narcissist is impossible without being walked all over, perhaps the only way is to only see them occasionally and keep conversation light.
How sad.

Vicky123

It's really sad and hard to come to terms with but it's probably best to see less and maintain some kind of contact than be driven to despair.

meritaten

pukkamum - you finally realise what your mum is - I agree it shouldn't stop you loving her! BUT, and this is a huge but, you will no longer blame yourself for situations which your mum has manipulated to make YOU look bad! and don't tell me she doesn't do that - it isn't always intentional - its because SHE wants to look a certain way either victim or saviour. Your feelings are incidental. once you understand that about the narcissist you are well on your way to being 'bulletproof'! you can even cut them off at the pass on occasion - tho being thwarted brings consequences! Its not knowing you are being manipulated by a master which makes you doubt yourself and your memories and question your own sanity (I bet you have done that too!).

pukkamum

meritaten wrote: »

pukkamum - you finally realise what your mum is - I agree it shouldn't stop you loving her! BUT, and this is a huge but, you will no longer blame yourself for situations which your mum has manipulated to make YOU look bad! and don't tell me she doesn't do that - it isn't always intentional - its because SHE wants to look a certain way either victim or saviour. Your feelings are incidental. once you understand that about the narcissist you are well on your way to being 'bulletproof'! you can even cut them off at the pass on occasion - tho being thwarted brings consequences! Its not knowing you are being manipulated by a master which makes you doubt yourself and your memories and question your own sanity (I bet you have done that too!).

Oh for sure questioning my own memories and sanity, when I would talk about the emotional abuse I suffered at the hands of my stepfather when younger, I would be told it wasn't that bad, you're just being sensitive, dramatic etc I was even accused of making memories up!
Back then I was so filled with self doubt and loathing that I would just go along with it.
However, since becoming a mum, meeting a wonderful man and losing tons of weight I no longer accept it. Mum and I had a conversation the other day when yet again she said well I know he used to nit pick at you but you were quite an annoying child!:eek:
I stood my ground I told her how angry I was at her playing down and pratically denying it all and talked her through every detail.
She was shocked, upset but still denying she knew anything about it.
I left it at that, I have said my piece, I said it calmly and almost unemotionally, yet meritaten, I still have a little voice in my head telling me I shouldn't have said anything as she will now be upset:o

meritaten

That little voice isn't yours - its your mums! she had your whole childhood to indoctrinate you! it isn't surprising she is still in your head! Ignore it - I mean that, deep down you know its irrational! it will get easier to do over time pukkamum.
You stood up to her - that shocked her! you KNOW how things really were. Trust your own mind and your own memories - remember she wants you to look back through her own 'rose-tinted specs'. You cant do that.
She is NEVER going to admit to being wrong - so accept that and (I hate this phrase) 'Move on'! it really is all you can do.
oh and YOU are not responsible for her emotions and reactions - she is.

brenda10

They never change because they will never accept they are the problem. Run for the hills, the more you try to help them the more they tramp you into the gutter. They only love themselves. My sister in law is ugly and nasty, in her own eyes she is perfection. their children are treated as objects, they have no feelings for them, use them to tend to their needs and manipulate and victimise them. they will usually leave their partner penny less so they don't have the funds to fight them through court for the children, they don't care about the children, they just want to win, inflict pain for their partner abandoning them. They choose to be monsters and can act out any part, they have no conscience. MASTER MANIPULATORS to the courts, judges and blacken their partner to make themselves look like the victim. They project every thing bad about themselves onto their victim/partner, RUN RUN RUN!! Also fight for your children as they suck them bone dry leaving them like empty shells, read the daughter of a narcissist and it is hair raising!! I see my little niece, so awful and yes there is no justice, these narcs trick the courts etc, Children are the victims and usually when they are the age of working it all out, they are destroyed, too late, the narcs don't give a dam about their children=object to be discarded if they turn the word against them!
Good Luck. Take care to anyone who is the child of a narc, help yourself heal, you are the good person, they are EVIL!
We are preparing to support my brother to fight for his 5 yr old daughter, so sad, he loves her, the mother abuses her mentally and neglects her, for example she took the child to fun fare, made child hold the change so that mum could play the slot machines while child was told she was too old to go on ghost train and got on none of the rides!! Cruel for a child of 5 to watch other children on the rides and she is made to attend mum all day and then leaves having had another sad day with no fun or kindness shown.

brenda10

pukkamum wrote: »

Oh for sure questioning my own memories and sanity, when I would talk about the emotional abuse I suffered at the hands of my stepfather when younger, I would be told it wasn't that bad, you're just being sensitive, dramatic etc I was even accused of making memories up!
Back then I was so filled with self doubt and loathing that I would just go along with it.
However, since becoming a mum, meeting a wonderful man and losing tons of weight I no longer accept it. Mum and I had a conversation the other day when yet again she said well I know he used to nit pick at you but you were quite an annoying child!:eek:
I stood my ground I told her how angry I was at her playing down and pratically denying it all and talked her through every detail.
She was shocked, upset but still denying she knew anything about it.
I left it at that, I have said my piece, I said it calmly and almost unemotionally, yet meritaten, I still have a little voice in my head telling me I shouldn't have said anything as she will now be upset:o

Pukkamum,
they admit to nothing, it will be someone else's fault NEVER THEIRS.
I admire your standing up to your mum, WELL DONE. She is only a mum not a mother, she was as guilty as your abuser stepfather, shame on her. My little niece is only 5 and it is so sad, she has a loving father who has separated from his wife very recently, she is the devil, keep away from your mum and any negativity in your life, surround your self with good, loving, caring people like your partner, take care you WONDERFUL person.
My brother has just stood up after many years of trying to help his narc wife, =he is a saint, the abuse was awful, now to fight her for his beautiful daughter who he has been mother and father to and protected, I hope he wins against EVIL. Lots of Love to you.

brenda10

Manchee wrote: »

I have to say I do totally agree with this, people can display characteristics or certain traits of some mental health disorders without having that condition. For instance I am sure we have all known people who seem to be unable to emphasis with others or individuals who seem very self involved or have a very exaggerated view of themselves, maybe we would describe them as being 'narcissistic', but they wouldn't necessarily be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder.

OP, your sister, has she ever been evaluated regarding her mental health? You were wondering how children brought up by a care-giver with NPD were affected. Have you posted any questions on any forums that deal directly with NPD and other mental health issues? Tbh, apart from the moral support that MSE gives, I would think you're far more likely to find people who can answer questions and give advice about such a difficult and personal situation on on a forum that is more specialised.

They will never be the one with the problem, that is why they chose not to go seek medical help, THEY ARE PERFECT- U HAVE THE PROBLEM, it is a joke. THEY NEVER ADMIT THEIR FAILURES-PSYCHOS:j

brenda10

Manchee wrote: »

Its in the name, its a personality disorder, aka a mental health disorder. Being 'self obsessed' is only a part of NPD. Thats like saying the flu is just a cold. I think any illness, especially invisible illnesses, deserved to be treated with respect, and the individuals suffering from them don't deserve to be brushed under the carpet. Shame on this kind of attitude.

They are a waste of space, all about ME MYSELF and I, they don't care about anyone's feelings, even their own children are objects to be abused, neglected, minds destroyed, if you have never had the experience 1st hand of them you know nothing about the depths they stoop to. They are MASTER MANIPULATORS with no conscience and destruct any1 who queries them, children suffer most, they can never be good enough, no praise, putting them down, mentally destroying their little minds, I have no empathy for my sis in law narc, she is a monster to her own beautiful little daughter, she just uses her as a pawn in 'her' marriage break-up, brother lived with her for 14 years of hell trying to help her-SHE needed no help , she was PERFECT. I say a Perfect Monster. Live with them, witness the havoc they wreak, the lives and minds they destroy, they need to be swept under the carpet and forgotten about, they need no pity, pity is what makes them tick and destroy the helper. MONSTERS!:eek:

Runnybabbit

I have been reading this thread with shock and horror but at last, I'm beginning to now understand that this now relates to my brother-in-law !!! :eek:

For the past 30 years he's been controlling my sister, has totally brainwashed her, to the degree that I do not want to spend any time with them as a couple. I don't even phone her at certain times of the day as I know he'll pick up the phone. He has totally alienated his daughter, his son, his son in laws, me and my DH, my sisters friends, and basically anyone that gets too close to my sister. He's self employed so works from home so he really can control at any time he wants.

He's says some of the most disgusting sentences I have ever heard and for no apparent reason ! He's rude and personally insulting. He makes comments regarding my weight (9 stone) and how fat I am. I'd love a relationship with my sister but I just cannot see how when I face a barrage of abuse and insults when I want to see her. I've recently turned down a wonderful day out with my niece as I knew 'HE'D' be there. How do I explain this to my niece when its her father I'm talking about ? !

I'm so glad I found this thread - its made sense of his out-bursts. He too has had a traumatic childhood losing his father at a very young age and his mum to alcohol abuse. Or should I be feeling sad for this man ?

Anyone living with this in their family - you have my sympathies x