pulling into bus lane to let police car pass

Jamie_Carter

missile wrote: »

I edited my post to add more information, is that against your rules?

You may feel three week intensive training that you(?) received is extensive, I don't agree. You will know that of your three weeks much of that time is spent in the class room. In car driving is (usually) done with one instructor and three pupils in the car. IMHO there is barely enough one on one instruction to mitigate the risks inherent in response driving.

You may think that the standard of police training is the same for every force, this is not correct. Officers from Hendon have endless arguments with their colleagues from Tulliallan. Quite rightly each force determines the training requirements applicable to their region. The hazards driving in London are not the same as those facing an officer on a single track road in the highlands. AFIK there is no regulation requiring refresher training.

You criticise that I have only cited ONE man's opinion, ignoring the fact that he is a Senior officer in a position to know far better than I (or you?) then make assertions about uniformity of police training, improvements and refresher training without any justification whatsoever. You may feel that training is better now than it was in 2010, I don't agree.

Please note: This is not an attack on police instructors. Those whom I know do the best they can within ever more difficult budget pressure and time constraints.



I don't want to get into a !!!!ing contest comparing my knowledge, training and qualifications to yours. That is irrelevant to the fact that police drivers should never tailgate other road users as described by leosayer.

I asked you to comment, see post 13, 109 & 111. I rest my case m'lord

You know absolutely nothing about my training. So you can't comment on it.

Changes in training were being made before 2010, to make up for shortcomings in training that existed previously.

Post 13 was one persons opinion of one particular occasion, and can not be taken as evidence. Posts 109 and 111 are your posts, so can be disregarded anyway.

You still haven't said where your expertise comes from. All you have said is it is in your opinion. From what you have told us so far nothing you have said says that you are qualified to judge.

Jamie_Carter

missile wrote: »

I don't want to get into a !!!!ing contest with you either. I stated my opinion and you called me stupid, that is offensive.

No, he said that you made a stupid comment. There is a difference.

It is you who has been throwing insults.

Jamie_Carter

missile wrote: »

I have no desire to prove my prove my knowledge, training, experience or qualifications or interest in trading insults.

I did not say, nor do I think police officers are stupid. However, there are no minimum academic requirements which justifies my comment that they are not the brightest:http://www.police-recruitment.com/Police-Entry-Requirements.php and http://www.metpolicecareers.co.uk/eligibility_requirements.html

You have just proved your ignorance on the subject...I rest my case!! :rotfl::rotfl:

Jamie_Carter

kizkiz wrote: »

Can't believe I've read all 7 pages. lol
One point that's been brought up time and again that nobody has covered is why the police car did not use the bus lane
Think about the natural reaction of most drivers when they hear or see sirens/lights? They pull over to the left. the highway code tells you to pull over also. the op pulled over as a natural reaction.
Undertaking isn't allowed in this country, so nobody expects it.
The most dangerous thing you can do on a blue light run is undertake, as people will pull left and hit you.

It has been covered if you read the posts. The police officer would most likely have planned to use the bus lane. But when the OP moved into it, then they would have had to change their plan.

kizkiz wrote: »

Also, police do not have an exemption to use bus lanes. Local policy generally means that the LA will not prosecute
Police exemptions on blue lights are speed, keep left bollards and red lights...that's it.

Emergency vehicles can use bus lanes both on emergency calls, and when training. And they can also undertake (although this takes extra care).

I think you need to read up on the exemptions, because you have only covered half of them.

Jamie_Carter

smashingyour... wrote: »

Who would that be then?

There are people better qualified than you are;)

Yes there are, and I agree with him.

Aretnap

George_Michael wrote: »

That certainly looks like a clear reference to training to me.

I do hate to wade into this p!issing contest, but can't resist replying here.

(1)No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall apply to any vehicle on an occasion when it is being used for fire and rescue authority, ambulance or police purposes, if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

(2)Subsection (1) above applies in relation to a vehicle being used—
(a)for Serious Organised Crime Agency purposes, or
(b)for training persons to drive vehicles for use for Serious Organised Crime Agency purposes,
as it applies in relation to a vehicle being used for police purposes.

(3)But (except where it is being used for training the person by whom it is being driven) subsection (1) above does not apply in relation to a vehicle by virtue of subsection (2) above unless it is being driven by a person who has been trained in driving vehicles at high speeds.

Subsection 1 creates a general exception from speed limits for vehciles used for police, fire and ambulance purposes.
Subsection 2 extends that to SOCA
But Subsection 3 says that a vehicle is only exempt by virtue of subsection 2 if the driver had been trained in high speed driving.

So the SOCA exemption is reliant on the driver having been trained in high speed driving - but not the police, fire or ambulance exemptions.

Jamie_Carter

Aretnap wrote: »

I do hate to wade into this p!issing contest, but can't resist replying here.

Subsection 1 creates a general exception from speed limits for vehciles used for police, fire and ambulance purposes.
Subsection 2 extends that to SOCA
But Subsection 3 says that a vehicle is only exempt by virtue of subsection 2 if the driver had been trained in high speed driving.

So the SOCA exemption is reliant on the driver having been trained in high speed driving - but not the police, fire or ambulance exemptions.

That's not the way I read it. But anyway, for any emergency service to allow their staff to drive under blue light conditions with out training would be in breach of health and safety laws.

worried123

Oh no! what have I started here.

Jamie_Carter

worried123 wrote: »

Oh no! what have I started here.

Don't worry, it's the same with any thread, on any forum. You will always get people who insist they are right just because they think they are, and not because they have any knowledge on the subject.

And then you will also get trolls who will argue just for the sake of arguing.

Jamie_Carter

[FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Bold][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Bold]Exemptions from speed limits

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
For section 87 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (c. 27) (exemption of fire,

ambulance and police vehicles from speed limits) substitute—


[FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Bold][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Bold]“87 Exemptions from speed limits

[/FONT]
[/FONT]
(1) No statutory provision imposing a speed limit on motor vehicles shall

apply to any vehicle on an occasion when—

(a) it is being used for fire and rescue authority purposes or for or

in connection with the exercise of any function of a relevant

authority as defined in section 6 of the Fire (Scotland) Act 2005,

for ambulance purposes or for police or Serious Organised

Crime Agency purposes,

(b) it is being used for other prescribed purposes in such

circumstances as may be prescribed, or

(c) it is being used for training persons to drive vehicles for use for

any of the purposes mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b) above,


“RTA section 41C Breach of requirement as to

speed assessment

equipment detection device.

Sections 11 and 12(1) of this

Act.”

“RTA section 41C Breach of

requirement as

to speed

assessment

equipment

detection

devices.

Summarily. (a) Level 4

on the

standard

scale if

committed

on a special

road.

(b) Level 3

on the

standard

scale in any

other case.

Discretionary. Obligatory. 3-6 or 3

(fixed

penalty).”

“RTA section 41C Breach of requirement as

to speed assessment

equipment detection

devices.”


24 [FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Italic][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Italic]Road Safety Act 2006 (c. [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,BoldIt][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,BoldIt]49[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Italic][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Italic])[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Italic][FONT=BookAntiquaParliamentary,Italic][/FONT][/FONT]


if the observance of that provision would be likely to hinder the use of

the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion.

(2) Subsection (1) above does not apply unless the vehicle is being driven

by a person who—

(a) has satisfactorily completed a course of training in the driving

of vehicles at high speed provided in accordance with

regulations under this section, or

(b) is driving the vehicle as part of such a course.

(3) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision about

courses of training in the driving of vehicles at high speed.

(4) The regulations may include—

(a) provision about the nature of courses,

(b) provision for the approval by the Secretary of State of persons

providing courses or giving instruction on courses and the

withdrawal of approvals (including provision for appeals

against refusal and withdrawal of approvals),

(c) provision specifying the maximum fees that a person may be

required to pay for a course,

(d) provision for the training or assessment, or the supervision of

the training or assessment, of persons providing courses or

giving instruction on courses,

(e) provision for the evidencing of the successful completion of

courses,

(f) provision authorising the Secretary of State to make available

information about persons providing courses or giving

instruction on courses, and

(g) provision treating courses of training in the driving of vehicles

at high speed which have been completed before the coming

into force of the regulations as if they had been provided in

accordance with the regulations.

(5) The regulations may include provision for the charging of reasonable

fees in respect of any function conferred or imposed on the Secretary of

State by the regulations.

(6) The regulations may make different provision—

(a) for different classes of vehicle,

(b) for different descriptions of persons, or

(c) otherwise for different circumstances.”