Daydream thread... without the rose-tinted specs

COOLTRIKERCHICK

Thanks ITSME and BD..

Yes without question ITSME, if we had a shotgun, they would have been shot..and both hubby and myself told the owners this...

Was def going to send them a covering letter with a copy of the vet's bill, saying that the bill HAD TO be paid with 5 days, an any further treatment, and financial loss steming/due to the attack will have to be paid/forfiled by them.

The vet said that this traumatic stress, could leave some sort of lactos something or other basically its a hormone or chemical produced by the pig under stress, and it could take up to 6 months to go out of the body.. so it is unwise to slaughter them before 6 months.. think it might have some sort of effect on the meat...

And 'Gladys' didn't have a mark on her....

By all accounts 'Paul' the boar who is in the run next the piglets was going bananas... I am sure he would have killed the dogs, as if those piglets were his own....if he could get to them

BD yes I am now on my 3rd cuppa:cool::D and I am injoying every sip

lostinrates

Lucky they didn't get in with the boar. The dogs' end would not have been humane.

CTC, I suggest some third party involvement here. They are neighbours? Whatever happens either outcome will have far reaching impact, right or wrongly.

COOLTRIKERCHICK

The dogs were alsations or some sort of alsation x

LIR no the dogs do not belong to our neighbours, the dogs live about a mile away, by all accounts they got out of their back garden.

Some of the neighbours that back onto our entrance lane heard the noise, and acted, by going into the piglets run and grabbed the dog? dogs and got them out, and then put a lead/rope around them, and stayed there until we arrived.

But I think one of the neighbours didn't like the idea that eventually there will be pigs going on all of our land, which he did say he could smell them from his house...But at the moment I don't give a monkeys about that, cross that bridge later, and deal with it...

COOLTRIKERCHICK

I am def not the first for this to happen too, and there is noooooo way will I be the last... so any daydreamers lurking... This is one of the serious realities about a smallholding/ having livestock...

Which I would not wish this situation on my worst enemy, BUT it is a situation to bare in mind that could happen ..

ANYWAY.... back at the ranch:D we have manage to get the waste fruit and veg from the same place as before:T but sadly it is nowhere as cheap as it was, we are buying it at 95% discounted price, great if its bags of carrots etc, but no good for those ponsey posh pre-cut fruit etc.... SOOOOO even though it doesn't work out cheaper than the pig nuts.. in the week we have been feeding the fresh stuff, the piglets have had a growing spirt, and are really conditioning up lovely.. so will have to bite the bullet, and buy at those prices... and get get my butt into growing stuff for them to eat too..



ooo its started to rain here, and the sky has gone dark

lostinrates

IMO a mile in rural area is ' neighbours'.

You know you are in the right, but with your longterm happiness in mind you need to be protected here. This needs to stay dreamy. having the support of 'neighbours' is often key to success with sales but also with contentment in an area. You have public liability insurance? Legal cover wit that? Or do you know someone who can arbitrate here for you gratis?

I know you have the skill to, and it should not ideally be necessary, but these communities, these daydream business plans are funny balances. Along with the emotion you will have about the dogs.

If you decide to handle it its a time for self depreciation within your resolve. Let others defend your regretful and apologetic choice.

Any chance of revisiting hat decision to let house one and move out there o been site?

Edit...and o, certainly not the first. We've lost poultry to right to roamers.

Rummer

Hugs CTC you really must have got a dreadful fright. Glad to hear that the piglets have been successfully treated and I am sure that they are being suitably spoilt after their ordeal. It may be worth going to a lawyer for a free consultation to get some advice about where you stand if things reach a stand off.

Things here are chaotic to say the least. We seem to have acquired a mountain of stuff over the years and now that we are repurposing one of the rooms in the house we are at a loss as to what to do with everything :think:

Currently there are piles of books in almost every room which are without a home and I have no idea where to put them. There are very few things that have a resale value and I am loath to just give things away but I think we are getting to the point where we really need to do something. It is the situation where we need to clear out a load of things just so that we can start putting the piles of things away.

I could cheerfully scream

On a cheerier note I have picked up a few things from gumtree/freecycle for our new arrival for free or for a fraction of the cost new so I am super cheery about that (although it does add to the piles of stuff )

lostinrates

CTC, I just spoke to DH who says if it helps he would be happy to read over any letters before you send them if you handle this yourselves.

COOLTRIKERCHICK

LIR

We have something called a lifestyle policy with the NFU..

will check out our policy, or phone our local office tomorrow to see EXACTLY what it covers, I think it covers public liability and any damage etc done by OUR animals etc.

we are right on the edge of use to be ' posh' housing estate, and at the bottom of the public footpath there is another built up area, basically one side of lane ( back of bungalows/gardens) then there is a dirt track lane ( leading to our house/public footpath) is classed as urban, the other side of the lane ( our land) is classed as rural/agricultural land, so can not be built on, except argri buildings etc.

Hope all that made sense...

Our property/land is registered with defra as a smallholding etc

Itismehonest

While I understand what LIR means - you have to try to live amicably with your neighbours, CTC - the dogs trespassed onto your property & were out of control so the owners MUST take some sort of responsibility & make redress.

From https://www.gov.uk/control-dog-public/overview (the Govt. advice):

1. Overview - It’s against the law to let a dog be dangerously out of control:
in a public place
in a private place where the dog isn’t allowed to be (eg a neighbour’s house or garden without permission)

The law applies to all dogs.

Out of control - Your dog is considered dangerously out of control if it:
injures someone
makes someone worried that it might injure them

A court could also decide that your dog is dangerously out of control if:
it injures someone’s animal
the owner of the animal thinks they could be injured if they tried to stop your dog attacking their animal

A farmer is allowed to kill your dog if it’s worrying their livestock.

Penalties - You can be fined up to £5,000 and/or sent to prison for up to 6 months if your dog is out of control. You may also not be allowed to own a dog in the future.

ferretkeeper

Oh CTC what a nightmare for you! :grouphug:

But so good that the near neighbours were there and brave enough to step in and help.

I can see it from both sides as I had a dog who was not good with our livestock - she was a GSD/Mastiff and she explored the world with her mouth, generally picking things up and carrying them around, not doing harm but on occasion she broke the skin on various poultry and due to her not knowing her own strength she killed a very small gosling once that escaped their pen.

She would also go for our goats and pigs, and even cats outdoors - it was mainly the chasing thing that drew her but once but she nipped a weaner I was selling to someone through the bars of the crate they were in and ripped its ear. It was really hard to keep her apart from the livestock, I was constantly looking over my shoulder, double checking gates etc. Eventually we rehomed her (she was fighting with our other dogs) but I could never have put her down.

OTOH had it been someone else's dog that somehow was trespassing and got to my livestock it would be a different matter.

And knowing that my dogs, all collies, like to run round and sometimes chase my livestock (they do no harm but another farmer wouldn't see it that way) I make sure they CANNOT get out as any farmer here would shoot then ask questions, even if it's a collie.

GSDs are clever and they'll likely know where they were and will probably try and get there again.

I think I'd go the middle ground, on the basis that if it were my dogs I'd hope someone could be reasonable with me and give them a second chance.

They need to pay ALL your costs and any consequential losses. The dogs need to see a behaviourist, they need to be muzzled while out and the garden needs to be 100% secured immediately - they'd need to show you, and you be satisfied that they have done all these things. Whatever your concerns are for other people's kids etc if the dogs are a bit vicious I'd just say your animals are the priority, and luckily they will recover...if it had been two kids the dogs would have been PTS already.

Do the owners seem responsible, are they sorry, bending over backwards to put things right for you? If not I'd have a harsher view, sod their kids being upset, that's not your problem it's theirs for letting the dogs get out of control.

Your insurance is to cover you and your animals, the dog owner should be paying up and claiming on their own insurance if they wish, if they've even got any.

But you should have legal assistance with the NFU policy, sounds like the one I have with them, good for advice, I've used them myself - and try CAB as well.

Neighbours complaining about smells need to go and boil their heads, farms smell farmy, pig factories and huge poultry sheds stink, I couldn't smell anything at your place.

Also that brings up the matter of a gate across the track...bollox to the walkers and the footpath lot, the safety of your livestock is far more important, you're legally bound to protect them from danger. And no kissing gates that dogs can get through, put in a pedestrian gate with a latch and a CCTV camera to make sure people close it behind them.

Edit: some strongly worded signage and maybe electric fencing too?

It does sound like it's time to really consider moving down permanently....if you need a hand packing?