Job center and mental health

busy_mom_2

~Chameleon~ wrote: »

But you said...



And when I challenged you, you said...



I'm sorry but clinical depression IS a mental illness.

From what you describe, I suspect you were suffering normal baby blues rather than PND. I sufffered PND and was sectioned to a mother & baby psychiatric unit.

If a doctor, after several visits and meeting with a midwife says 'you have PND' then I am not in a position, nor sufficiently qualified to dispute if it is indeed 'baby blues or PND. I took mediactin for over a year, recieved councelling and luckily lots of support from my lovely hubby. I was encouraged to go out and do things to try to feel better about myslef.
I would hate to have been in your shoes, selfishly I am lucky I wasn't.

I am not suggesting for any second that because my situation luckily improved and what I did, i belive, contributed towards it, that the same would work for yourslef or any one else. I am mearly contributing to an ongoing discussion and making suggestions that MAY help others.

I wish you luck and good health for the future.

[Deleted User]

Dogger69 wrote: »

This shows a poor understanding of mental illness. Those in a severe depressive episode will know that they do not want to feel like they do, but may also have forgotten what happy or content is. They may see only one way out of their situation, and it is not getting better.

What you describe could apply to someone that is very unhappy, but severe mental illness comes with illogical thought patterns, so conventional thinking goes out the window. You wouldn't automatically assume someone with a brain injury would want to/ know how to feel happy, so why would you with severe mental illness?

What I was saying was in reply to the comment made by someone who said ''some people don't want to get better''

It was that comment I took exception to to be honest

I would think most people if you asked them do they want their lives to improve or to feel better they would say yes , not NO

My Nephew has schizophrenia and sometimes does not take his medication as he worries about weight gain and they won't change his medication

I still don't understand the ''they don't want to get better'' comment though as I know he and others who suffer from a mental health problem DO and want their lives to improve or not end up in hospital etc and he goes to college now and wants a career and a future! :-)

I just don't like the assumption that some people wallow in it and don't want to take what steps they CAN do for their lives to improve , if someone is suffering it is natural for them to want their suffering to stop and for things to improve for them surely?

I am no expert but I just didn't like the assumption that some people are ill and are too lazy to take any steps for themselves to get better coz if something is hurting of course you want it to stop!!

It just sounded like ''I took steps to make myself better so why doesn't everyone else'' and the word wallowing was used along with the some people don't want to get better comment , how do you know that for sure???

It just sounded judgmental to me , that's all as we are all different people , in different boats and circumstances and AM SURE THEY WILL TAKE THOSE STEPS WHEN THEY ARE READY OR ABLE TO DO SO! :-)

All I know is those who I know suffering with a mental illness want to get better

seven-day-weekend

The point I was making is that some people, whilst saying they want to feel better, do not actually do anything to better their lot (and yes, I know depression can lead to lack of motivation and I also know that sometimes people are so ill that they can't, at that point, do anything to help themselves.).

There was a lady I knew, always bemoaning her lot and how everyone else was better off, healthier, had nicer houses and more money etc than she did. She was diagnosed with depression and then moaned about that too. Every suggestion that people gave that might help was ignored and an excuse given that made it impossible (these were things like take the medication, open the curtains, go for a walk, come and have coffee, etc). She was like it for years and years and did nothing else other than moan that she wished she was better (and continuing to moan about all the other things).

I have known one or two people like that and I honestly do think that for some reason they prefer to be ill so that they do not have to face up to the world. I will add I think these people are in the vast minority and that most people work very hard to get better, when they are able.

Hope this clarifies.

dktreesea

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

The point I was making is that some people, whilst saying they want to feel better, do not actually do anything to better their lot (and yes, I know depression can lead to lack of motivation and I also know that sometimes people are so ill that they can't, at that point, do anything to help themselves.).

There was a lady I knew, always bemoaning her lot and how everyone else was better off, healthier, had nicer houses and more money etc than she did. She was diagnosed with depression and then moaned about that too. Every suggestion that people gave that might help was ignored and an excuse given that made it impossible (these were things like take the medication, open the curtains, go for a walk, come and have coffee, etc). She was like it for years and years and did nothing else other than moan that she wished she was better (and continuing to moan about all the other things).

I have known one or two people like that and I honestly do think that for some reason they prefer to be ill so that they do not have to face up to the world. I will add I think these people are in the vast minority and that most people work very hard to get better, when they are able.

Hope this clarifies.

But there is a real moral hazard, with disability benefits, built into our system. It goes something like :"if we, the government, agree, via our agents the DWP, including whomever they subcontract the checking functions to (e.g. ATOS) that you are disabled, we will reward you with x amount of money. But (and this is the jeopardy part) there is a condition. If you get better, or improve too much, we will take that money away."

There are huge financial benefits to protecting your disability status once you have been awarded - or perhaps I should say rewarded with - it. These are benefits worth thousands of pounds a year, that are not subject to income tax and are not means tested. So you can get them regardless of how much you earn.

Is it really so surprising that some people may decide not to work towards getting better, simply because they don't want to lose the benefit they currently qualify for?

FBaby

I'm sorry but clinical depression IS a mental illness

busy mum didn't say 'clinical' depression, just depression.

That's the problem. Big difference between properly diagnosed clinical depression that hasn't responded after properly administered drugs and some appropriate counselling, and depression that is defined by 'Mr GP, I am feeling very low at the moment, I can't get motivated to get going and the idea of going once a week to the job centre to be judged because after 5 years I still haven't managed to find work, it's too much and I cry every time before I go' Ha ok, I think you are suffering from depression, I'll give you some pills, and I recommend you apply for ESA...

No-one is debating that serious clinical depression is on a completely different par to that last instance.

clemmatis

dktreesea wrote: »

But there is a real moral hazard, with disability benefits, built into our system. It goes something like :"if we, the government, agree, via our agents the DWP, including whomever they subcontract the checking functions to (e.g. ATOS) that you are disabled, we will reward you with x amount of money. But (and this is the jeopardy part) there is a condition. If you get better, or improve too much, we will take that money away."

There are huge financial benefits to protecting your disability status once you have been awarded - or perhaps I should say rewarded with - it. These are benefits worth thousands of pounds a year, that are not subject to income tax and are not means tested. So you can get them regardless of how much you earn.

Is it really so surprising that some people may decide not to work towards getting better, simply because they don't want to lose the benefit they currently qualify for?

IB awarded after 2001 is reduced by a certain amount for claimants receiving occupational/private pensions. ESA, which replaces it, is either time-limited (Contributory ESA, WRAG; one year) or means-tested (Income Based ESA, WRAG and Support Group). Its only non-means-tested non-temporary form, then, is Contributory ESA Support Group.

Not that that's particularly relevant, perhaps.

clemmatis

seven-day-weekend wrote: »

The point I was making is that some people, whilst saying they want to feel better, do not actually do anything to better their lot (and yes, I know depression can lead to lack of motivation and I also know that sometimes people are so ill that they can't, at that point, do anything to help themselves.).

There was a lady I knew, always bemoaning her lot and how everyone else was better off, healthier, had nicer houses and more money etc than she did. She was diagnosed with depression and then moaned about that too. Every suggestion that people gave that might help was ignored and an excuse given that made it impossible (these were things like take the medication, open the curtains, go for a walk, come and have coffee, etc). She was like it for years and years and did nothing else other than moan that she wished she was better (and continuing to moan about all the other things).

I have known one or two people like that and I honestly do think that for some reason they prefer to be ill so that they do not have to face up to the world. I will add I think these people are in the vast minority and that most people work very hard to get better, when they are able.

Hope this clarifies.

My mother was in her later years, like that. As she'd retired and as she claimed no means-tested benefits, so what? But it was grim for her (and for me, yes).

Eventually she was prescribed an AD, low dose dosulepin. It did help a bit; it helped her sleeplessness, and calmed her. But still, she could be pretty miserable/"negative"/etc..

Again, eventually, by chance, for a different reason, a GP ordered a battery of blood tests. She was, the results showed, clinically hypothyroid. When, finally, the drugs kicked in, she improved dramatically.

I wouldn't have said she preferred to be ill. There are people who for whatever reason find it more difficult to "face up to the world". The issue is surely what we do to help them.

dktreesea

clemmatis wrote: »

IB awarded after 2001 is reduced by a certain amount for claimants receiving occupational/private pensions. ESA, which replaces it, is either time-limited (Contributory ESA, WRAG; one year) or means-tested (Income Based ESA, WRAG and Support Group). Its only non-means-tested non-temporary form, then, is Contributory ESA Support Group.

Not that that's particularly relevant, perhaps.

I meant the benefits over and above ESA, i.e. DLA, motability for car, blue parking badge etc.

clemmatis

dktreesea wrote: »

I meant the benefits over and above ESA, i.e. DLA, motability for car, blue parking badge etc.

I did wonder at the time.

Motability cars aren't separate from DLA, they're available for people who get HRM DLA, and the DLA's used, basically, to pay for the car. I wouldn't have thought any people whose primary condition was depression got HRM. (Of course I realise motivation can be important in some cases of physical illness too.)

Anyway. I think we just have to live with the moral hazard element.

dktreesea

clemmatis wrote: »

I did wonder at the time.

Motability cars aren't separate from DLA, they're available for people who get HRM DLA, and the DLA's used, basically, to pay for the car. I wouldn't have thought any people whose primary condition was depression got HRM. (Of course I realise motivation can be important in some cases of physical illness too.)

Anyway. I think we just have to live with the moral hazard element.

Mentally ill people can qualify for both the care and the mobility components of DLA. For example, if they need someone with them to go to unfamiliar places (mobility DLA), or if they are too distracted to be able to cook a meal on their own, for example, people who can't be left alone to do that because they forget they have the stove on (care DLA).