Help needed over possible disciplinary please!

paulineb_2

Richard53 wrote: »

I've come late to this, and from the very start I have felt that the employer was being ultra-careful and following correct procedure to an almost unreasonable degree. If they guy is alleging racism, you now know why they have done this.

All the facts are in your favour. It was at a separate location from the works do, it was with invited guests (i.e. personal friends), and although you have admitted that you didn't behave well, the employer has no reason to take the slightest interest in the events of the evening. The fact that they are bending over backwards to follow a rigid process suggests to me that they are terrified of how this may turn out for them. They want to leave no room for any accusation that they behaved in a discriminatory manner towards the complainant.

I am guessing that all the gossip around the workplace has come from him, and not your HR people. That is even more in your favour, and you should make a point of mentioning it in your interview. Basically, if he felt you behaved in a racist manner towards him, he should have reported that to the police, and not brought it into the workplace.

Stay calm, tell the truth, be reasonable.

Yes, but the employer chose to go down the path of investigating it in the workplace.

And I wouldnt be pointing the finger at someone for the gossip. The people who are to blame for allowing the gossip to be spread are the employer for not telling people to keep quiet about it. That should have been done in the first instance.

Also, yes maybe they dont want a discrimination claim from the man who has made the complaint, but is it fair to discriminate against one member of staff because the person who has made the complaint falls into a certain category when it comes to discrimination?

They could end up with two tribunal claims because they havent approached this properly. Theres no excuse for racism, but the minute someone says they have been abused, it should be investigated carefully and then and only then do they decide whether theres enough scope for any disciplinary action.

Not jumping in with two feet and allowing something that could still have been sorted out informally to gather speed and allow the entire office to gossip about it at the same time.

Unfair and unfounded allegations can damage someones career because there are always people who will say no smoke without fire.

Its been handled badly from start to finish and I would be asking the advice from the union on how to make a complaint against the employer for going down the formal route on the say so of one person.

Particularly as this didnt happen in the workplace. The word defamation springs to mind as well. I was working in a job last year and someone put in a complaint about me and it was vexatious. Not one shred of truth in it. And the complaint went in 4 weeks after my boss told me she was sacking me (for nothing). The person concerned (I worked in a gym and I met this woman once), handed the complaint in 3 months after I met her, it was a pack of lies from start to finish.

And when I complained about the way I had been treated, things just got nasty. I was getting nasty letters from the company for weeks, all sorts of ridiculous stuff put in print by a senior manager who had met me a handful of times and never seen me do a shift (same with my boss who was barely in the gym).

And I made it clear to the company that the stuff they were putting in print about me was defamatory and Id like it to stop before they got a legal letter.

Its not just your job thats the concern here, its the damage done to your reputation (and Im aware that people who get defamed in the workplace, many have strong bonds with staff and people will know its rubbish) and all of that could have been avoided if your employer had decided to investigate, they should have realised that all staff should have been told under data protection, they dont speak about any of this until the formal investigation is over.

And that is why its sometimes better to suspend one of the people involved on full pay, generally the person being investigated so that stuff like this doesnt happen.

Richard53

paulineb wrote: »

Yes, but the employer chose to go down the path of investigating it in the workplace.

...

Also, yes maybe they dont want a discrimination claim from the man who has made the complaint, but is it fair to discriminate against one member of staff because the person who has made the complaint falls into a certain category when it comes to discrimination?

I agree that it isn't fair. I was just offering a possible explanation as to why they were doing what they were doing.

paulineb_2

Can you ask your union rep to ask them why theres been a delay?

Dovah_diva

Ronald50 wrote: »

It can't be investigated in the office now because everyone's become too involved, apparently. It's been passed to external investigators. None of this was the plan when the allegations were first made. The heavy weather being made out of all this by the employer is having a bad effect on my health, I can tell you. The way they have allowed these allegations (let's face it, lies) and the subsequent fall-out to get out of hand is almost worse than the accusation itself.

Hopefully the fact that it is an external investigator will mean complete impartiality. Although this is a nightmare for you, it would be worse if the investigation was being carried out by someone you work with.

Hang on in there, it'll soon be over.

paulineb_2

Ronald50 wrote: »

It can't be investigated in the office now because everyone's become too involved, apparently. It's been passed to external investigators. None of this was the plan when the allegations were first made. The heavy weather being made out of all this by the employer is having a bad effect on my health, I can tell you. The way they have allowed these allegations (let's face it, lies) and the subsequent fall-out to get out of hand is almost worse than the accusation itself.

Who are the external investigators?

paulineb_2

Ronald50 wrote: »

Internal external investigators, I think, iykwim. I don't know exactly, haven't been told.

I think you should be finding out.

paulineb_2

Ronald50 wrote: »

I'll ask the union for more detail. My rep has already said he's never heard of this happening before. I am very much in the dark about what's going to happen next.

Id just like to say, having been in the position where I was unfairly dismissed, ten years ago, it was awful, horrible, it made me ill.

But I did not leave without a fight and at some point during the process I knew I would never be able to go back (Im not saying thats the case for you).

But I think sometimes when people are in the middle of a disciplinary they dont want to rock the boat and I can understand why, your job is at stake.

But make it your business to know your rights under employment law. I spent £2000 with a lawyer, who was supposedly doing his best for me (no he wasnt). I had to go into an investigatory meeting when it was clear I was too unwell to do so and it was a horrible experience.

One boss (I was managed by a management committee) had set it upon herself to investigate me and they just made up stuff, ridiculous rubbish. I got package after package sent to my home, full of lies. My investigatory meeting comprised her and someone else shouting across the table at me.

And after that I basically told them where they could shove their disciplinary meeting.

After that I ditched my lawyer, I had very good reason and I took them to tribunal and I represented myself. And when I managed staff no one ever sent me on a course about peoples rights in the workplace, I learned everything I needed to know from google.

Sometimes employers bank on the fact that people dont know their rights. Im not saying resign, Im not saying you have to go in with all guns blazing.

But even though Ive had some rotten jobs since then, Ive never been treated as badly since without standing up for myself and making it known to an employer when they are legally in the wrong. Sometimes you really need to say stuff it and assert yourself. Regardless of the outcome. Because its not worth your health.

Its not acceptable to have a hearing that might take place at some point in the future.

A relative of mine put in a grievance last year, with very good cause. 8 months later, they still hadnt heard it.

You have the right to insist on this hearing being held in a timely fashion and I would also be asking, who the people are who are doing the investigating.

Dovah_diva

Ronald50 wrote: »

I'll ask the union for more detail. My rep has already said he's never heard of this happening before. I am very much in the dark about what's going to happen next.

It's not unusual. I lodged a grievance against a former manager (totally founded, I hasten to add!) and the company immediately employed an external company to carry out the process. My manager was removed from his duties as my manager and I found the company to be professional. All meetings were held in an impartial location and both myself and my manager were kept informed.

antonic

Personally,

I would have waited for the internal processes to be exhausted and then taken further action.

But everybody deals with things in different ways.

gibson123

I think you not listening to the voices of reason on this forum, are being too reactive and that you are in danger of making yourself look as guilty as h**l. When I first started reading your posts, I believed your story, now I am not so sure, the more you get defensive, the more I doubt you.

I know that's harsh but you need a reality check, if you have done nothing wrong, yes of course you need to make sure correct procedures are followed, cooperate fully with the investigation and trust in the process. You can the appeal if you feel you have been treated unfairly.