Help needed over possible disciplinary please!

Yorkie1

Ronald50 wrote: »

Standing there uninvited, staring at a group of friends in the pub and listening in could be deemed harassment, especially if done with a view to picking up dirt on people, which he is well known for. Raising this sort of grievance could also be deemed harassment. Two connected acts of harassment could mean a charge under the protection from harassment act. That seems to be how the act works. But don't worry, I am not going there.

Paulineb's replies are right.

I am familiar with the Act and what you've described occurred does not come sufficiently close to establishing all of the elements of the offence so as to justify a criminal charge.

The only reason to use the civil route would be to obtain a restraining order. That isn't going to happen given that you are work colleagues.

You need to focus on the investigation and not get sidetracked by this at present.

ampersand

Ronald50 - just spotted your Thread and was about to suggest this very thing:
' have a look at the garden now ', or closely similar.

You have whirled yourself into a tangle, understandably. Steady down. Stand away for a bit. Can your wife come for a walk with you? I hope she'll offer a calming sort of quiet companionship, maybe a glass of sth apiece as you walk.
Your garden is more important, more forgiving, more rewarding, and has been under much longer onslaught this winter.

I suggest you read the Thread as an outsider, then apply the measured, sensible approach that you would advise another in the same situ. Having a Rep. present is important though. If you have never before had any disciplinary issues raised at work, simply state your confusion and disbelief as reasons for not knowing how to react to such charges. Say simply if the investigation panel consider this response makes you come across clumsily, it is more bewilderment on your part.

Tomorrow's another day at work too - you WILL be fine.
Big breath, outside you go and play for a bit.

Ronald50

ampersand wrote: »

Ronald50 - just spotted your Thread and was about to suggest this very thing:
' have a look at the garden now ', or closely similar.

You have whirled yourself into a tangle, understandably. Steady down. Stand away for a bit. Can your wife come for a walk with you? I hope she'll offer a calming sort of quiet companionship, maybe a glass of sth apiece as you walk.
Your garden is more important, more forgiving, more rewarding, and has been under much longer onslaught this winter.

I suggest you read the Thread as an outsider, then apply the measured, sensible approach that you would advise another in the same situ. Having a Rep. present is important though. If you have never before had any disciplinary issues raised at work, simply state your confusion and disbelief as reasons for not knowing how to react to such charges. Say simply if the investigation panel consider this response makes you come across clumsily, it is more bewilderment on your part.

Tomorrow's another day at work too - you WILL be fine.
Big breath, outside you go and play for a bit.

I'm going there now.

ampersand

Good man - bon courage!
Don't want to see that little green light of yours on again tonight:wave:

RuthnJasper

mountainofdebt wrote: »

I agree with you to a certain extent but if I was the OP I would want to make sure that I had covered all the bases, whatever, they may be so that I wasn't thrown by any comments made

I fully agree with you MoD, and it's 100% wise to be prepared (it's worked for the Boy Scouts for over 100 years ). But I know that I, myself, am notorious for going over and over things in my mind, to the point where I have almost made myself ill - only to find that only about of a third of the stress was necessary.

RuthnJasper

We'll be keeping everything that's legal crossed for you on Tuesday, Ronald50. Stay strong, and don't give the irritating little tick the satisfaction of knowing that he's got to you.

Keep smiling!

paulineb_2

ValHaller wrote: »

Already explained. It may well not get police support for bringing harassment as a criminal action. But it seems to me that there is certainly enough to bring a civil action.
I think there is enough for a civil action. And I cannot see that someone being a work colleague is enough to prevent a restraining order

Im not sure one incident of staring at someone in a pub would be enough to take out a harassment order, but we'll need to agree to disagree on that score.

Btw, Im not sure why its come up in the quoted box that I was talking about sofas, a blip somewhere:)

sammyjammy

Ronald50 wrote: »

Thanks Redpete. I've been googling various cases and it seems 'workplace events' are only those involving groups of close colleagues with elements of the event being funded by the employer. None of that was the case here.

I don't know if this applies to you as a local authority worker but as a Civil Servant it is treated as a workplace event if more than one member of the Department is present, whatever the circumstances. In theory an workplace investigation could take place about what happens between a couple at home if they both work for the same Dept.

paulineb_2

Ronald50 wrote: »

He was only there because hed followed us uninvited! Taken to that logical conclusion he could follow me anywhere and claim it was a work do because both of us were there! Ive put in a harassment grievance against him today. this is so petty and mot in my nature.

Why have you done it then?

Im sorry, I absolutely agree that your employers should really have just treated this with the contempt it deserved and chucked it in the bin.

But you are putting in a harassment grievance because he tagged along on a night out uninvited, stared at you in the pub, has put a grievance in against you and because you both had an argument (and Im just obviously thinking of the reasons you might have done this).

If I were a HR manager and Ive never worked in HR but I have managed staff and had to deal with disciplinary issues, Id be flinging the lot of it in the bin. Ive seen people go through real harassment in the workplace, ongoing harassment thats gone on for years, Ive suffered it myself. Its horrible and it can make people really unwell to the point where they cant work for an employer any longer. This is something minor (and Im not saying you dont feel harassed), that seems to have got way out of hand. What would you have done if he hadnt complained about you, would you have taken this matter further? Would you have spoken to your bosses about how you felt about the exchange of words you had with this man?


This could have and should have been sorted out informally. It wasnt and you arent to blame for that. But what do you want to achieve by putting in a harassment grievance about an incident that as you have said yourself didnt happen on a work night out and has nothing to do with your employer?

And Id be saying exactly the same thing to your co worker as well.
The issue with putting in a counter grievance in this instance is that it might not be taken seriously, because if you had wanted to go into grievance after the night out, you'd have done it as soon as you got into work the following day.

You've put in a grievance against him because he put one in against you.

I seriously hope that HR or your line managers see sense and shove the whole lot of this in the nearest waste paper bin and actually sit you both down and try and resolve this matter informally so that you can move on and both remain with the company without it affecting either of your jobs.

RuthnJasper

Ronald50 wrote: »

He was only there because hed followed us uninvited! Taken to that logical conclusion he could follow me anywhere and claim it was a work do because both of us were there! Ive put in a harassment grievance against him today. this is so petty and mot in my nature.

Oh dear - this is exactly what I would NOT have done at this stage! As PaulineB has said, this makes you seem rather petty and prepared to use a grievance againt someone who has put in one against you, to "get them back".

I really wouldn't have done anything until after your meeting tomorrow. But - hey ho - it's your battle and not mine. I still hope things go well for you tomorrow. x