Help needed over possible disciplinary please!

RuthnJasper

OP, I can't see that you've done anything worthy of dismissal - if you had moved on to another venue, how would anyone there have known where you worked (unless it's in a very small area, where everyone knows everyone else)...?

From what you've written, in particular about him following you then just standing quietly and watching you, the complainer almost sounds like he was trying to gather some 'mud' to sling at you back at the office. He certainly sounds rather petty and foolish to me.

I think that to have "brought the firm into disrepute" you would have had to said or done something that would materially affect in an adverse way how the company and it's employees are perceived by the general public. Hope that makes sense.

Just be open, honest and clear about what happened (as far as you can) - from what I can glean from your posts it sounds as though the complainant is going to look the bigger prat at the end of this.

Good luck; wishing you all the best for Tuesday. Please do let us know how you get on.

Rx

RuthnJasper

Ronald50 wrote: »

Thanks.

As others have said, the workplace is doing what it has to do if another employee raises a grievance by arranging an investigatory meeting. In other places I've worked, the manager would have probably told his fellow not to be so ridiculous but my present employer does do everything strictly by the book. Which is fair enough.

After some excellent advice on this thread, I am considering whether this man is in breech of the Protection from Harassment Act. The incident in the pub where he spent the night staring at me and the other two, closely followed by his malicious use of the grievance process in revenge for me challenging that behaviour.

I'd be a bit careful about this one - it could appear to your employers that you are now being somewhat vindictive for "revenge" purposes on your colleague. Also, if it was just the one instance, it may not be viewed as harassment. If the colleague regularly followed you around outside work, parked up outside your house, etc., then that would be a good case.

But following you once to a bar when you were with one other non-work friend, although a bit foolish and inappropriate, probably might not be construed as harassment.

I'd be inclined to wait and see what happens on Tuesday, keep quiet about his 'harassment' of you, and make a balanced decision about that once Tuesday is over and done with.

Best wishes.

paulineb_2

You have the right to know what you have been accused of before you go into an investigatory meeting. As far as Im concerned the worst thing you could do is go into a meeting that is basically starting the disciplinary process that could end up in a sacking without knowing fully what you have been accused of.

I hope you are going in with representation. Yes, Ive worked for organisations in the past who have sacked people for incidents at work nights out. If it wasnt a work night out hopefully your representation, union rep etc can argue it has nothing to do with the workplace and get it flung out.

But Id be seriously considering whether I want to work with an employer who monitors what you do in your own time if it wasnt a work function.

I dont think the police would do anything to this man for harassing you on the strength of staring at you and putting in a grievance after you had words with him.

People do put in malicious grievances, other employers would have flung it in the bin, now that your employer hasnt, you need to deal with whats happening.

But under no circumstances would I be going into any meeting without knowing the full contents of the grievance thats been submitted against me, you have a right to see that.

Ronald50

However, the protection from harassment act seems to say harassment can be 'two or more connected incidents', the first being the staring, the next the malicious grievance. Both acts were designed to, and did, cause 'anxiety'.

I think it's thin ice territory though.

gibson123

You need to pull all this back a bit and stop over-thinking and jumping the gun.

Stick to facts:

You were at a works do.
You and a select group moved on.
He was not invited but followed you.
He did not join in your group (assuming no-one was buying him drinks)
He stayed apart from the group and stared at you making you feel uncomfortable.
You had a "go" at him, having been pushed over the limits of your tolerance.
You could have perhaps handled the situation better. But you had been drinking, and felt intimidated by his continuing passive aggressive behaviour.
This was not at work and it was hours after the works "do".

Good luck.

paulineb_2

Well I would be challenging that. Id also be looking closely on ACAS website, they have guidelines on how grievances and investigations should be done. Id be asking my union rep to ask for a copy of the allegations before you go into any meeting.

People have been charged with criminal offences and cleared and allowed to keep their job. Yes Ive heard of people being sacked for physically fighting and one ex employer of mine was very much into the you represent your employer at all times.

But the issue for me is, why are the employer taking this on and investigating you if they know this wasnt at a work do or in work time?

Tbh if this person had a clear issue with you and felt that the exchange was particularly upsetting, it could have been the police they called.
Im surprised that anything is being made of this particularly as you say there were no witnesses.

And thats another thing I would be trying to find out before I went into any meeting, have other people put in statements about what happened as well.

Ronald50

ValHaller wrote: »

Quite possibly not. Harassment can be dealt with via a civil or a criminal complaint. There is enough here to take a civil route

There is. But it would be an aggressive move. Best saved for later if necessary, I feel.

Ronald50

I really would like to thank everyone who's contributed to this thread. I've been very worried about this and have got it out of proportion in my head. You've all helped me to see things more rationally so I thank you all.

Funky_Bold_Ribena

If it is an investigation meeting, you don't have the right to be accompanied, nor to see the accusation beforehand. It's at that meeting that they tell you what has been said against you and at that meeting you respond.

If it is thought that your answer is sufficient then they can go back and say 'no case to answer'. If not, and they want to take it to a disciplinary, then it's at that meeting that you have the right to be accompanied. So if you can get your union rep there at this first investigatory meeting, then all well and good and make sure s/he is fully briefed on what you think happened.

Phil_68

Agree with Funky, and to have a rep there at this stage is rare. I think you need to play it down and not stoke the fire at this early stage. All your weapons can be used as and when required, you don't need to show your arms store just yet.

As for the comments of racism, again I would aim to play it down, show shock and dismay (Genuinely) and if there are any tough questions, then ask for an adjournment to confer.

I really feel you're overthinking this whole thing, and while that can be good, it needs to be kept in check.

Phil.