Help needed over possible disciplinary please!

paulineb_2

ValHaller wrote: »

That would be a complete success. You are actually making the case for OP to take this action.


No, it is not a counter grievance for what happened on the night out. It is a complaint for bringing something which should have been left outside work into the workplace. It probably is not a counter grievance either, because the colleague seems to have put in a complaint rather than a grievance - ie colleague is alleging bringing the workplace into disrepute rather than injury to himself.


Perhaps the harassment you have seen would have been better nipped in the bud? Obviously if this colleague had not brought a complaint, OP would not have taken it further. OP's complaint relates precisely to the colleague bringing a complaint.

Sometimes you cant nip harassment in the bud if you have managers who are bullying you and their managers condoning it. I suffered from bullying and harassment in the workplace for a long time. It made me ill. I was signed off with work related stress more than once. In my last job I put in a grievance against my line manager, after raising issues with her manager and trying to get it resolved and getting nowhere.

Ive also been in a job where I was sacked for complaining about my horrible, and they were horrible, including violence against me, police were involved, I was working with BT police traces on my work phone line. Rather than try and resolve the matters, they sacked me.

Some employers have no working knowledge of employment law. Some have policies that arent worth the paper they are printed on.
Some cant even be bothered following their own policies. And sadly some professions such as nursing, teaching, and certain charity sectors have a culture of bullying.

I know someone who is a teacher who was bullied and harassed for numerous years, took out several grievances at a cost of thousands of pounds to themselves as they got legal representation as their unions were worse than useless. And that bullying ended up with one incident that could have had massive repercussions for them, even though they werent at fault due to managements policy of backing headteachers no matter whether they were in the wrong or not. At one school this person worked in, she found out that she was the 20th teacher to put in a grievance about this head and that every single person who had put one in before her, had lost it. And later found out after she lost hers, that the bosses had told this teacher, no more, we have backed you every time but that had better be the last.
But that is too little and way too late. The website bully online was set up by an ex teacher Tim Field and there are many case studies on there, including one of mine about how people have been badly treated in the workplace.

You can only deal with bullying and harassment if you have an employer that recognises that it exists and rather than moving the person making the complaint or making their life a misery, chooses to actually deal with the person doing the bullying.

Ive managed two staff teams in my time as a manager. I didnt bully people. Its not my way of managing staff. But I do know what its like to be on the receiving end of harassment that cant be nipped in the bud as you put it, because when you try and resolve it, management back the person doing the harassment. And Im sure millions of people around the world have been bullied in the workplace. And some employers dont recognise trade unions which can make life a lot harder if you need representation.

And right now, alarm bells would be ringing if I were working for a company who took this stance when they had other alternatives.
Because this could all have been sorted out informally and without the stress people are having to go through.

RuthnJasper

Well, Ronald50, just get a good night's sleep. Let's see what happens tomorrow, and then we'll know for 100% certain what has and has not been alleged and what steps you may or may not be able to take. OK?

Keep us posted. x

Phil_68

You need to step back, as hard as that is.

You cannot bring it to the police. Let it run it's course tomorrow, you will have the answers you need and time to make solutions.

You need to trust the system at this point. It has done nothing yet for you not to.

Try to rest, go in tomorrow with an open mind, be ready for anything and answer very little.

Getting worked up will solve nothing and cause something that can't be undone.

Phil.

Phil_68

You are right to be angry.

You have asked for help and that is what you have got.

If you don't want to listen then don't log in. You are doing yourself no favours by putting on your angry blinkers.

Until it happens you are limited, but the longer it goes on the better your case now and any possible case of a grievance will be.

Find what normally relaxes you and do it. Easy words but must be said.

Phil.

blckbrd

ValHaller wrote: »

Harassment requires 2 or more actions. So one instance of staring at someone in a pub would not be enough and was never claimed to be enough.

Harassment can be a single act.

Harassment

In this legal guidance, the term harassment is used to cover the 'causing alarm or distress' offences under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 as amended (PHA), and 'putting people in fear of violence' offences under section 4 of the PHA.

RuthnJasper

Phil_68 wrote: »

You are right to be angry.

You have asked for help and that is what you have got.

If you don't want to listen then don't log in. You are doing yourself no favours by putting on your angry blinkers.

Until it happens you are limited, but the longer it goes on the better your case now and any possible case of a grievance will be.

Find what normally relaxes you and do it. Easy words but must be said.

Phil.

PLEASE, Ronald50, listen to Phil. He is 100% right - and you are rapidly heading away from a situation in which you held the moral high-ground to one in which no-one will be able to save you from yourself.

I only logged back in at this late hour because I couldn't sleep (a sad set of circumstances has kept me awake, but nothing relevant to anyone here) and am saddened to see what has developed.

Ronald50; look at your latest post, then go back to read your first few on this thread. Don't do it to yourself - it isn't worth it.

paulineb_2

Have you looked on ACAS website, they have guidelines on how a proper investigation should be done, they deal with investigations, grievances and disciplinarys as well.

You need to know what your statutory rights are. Because too many employers bank on workers not knowing what their rights are when they try and investigate/discipline or dismiss someone.

You have the right to know what you have been accused of and I believe you also have the right to call witnesses.

I certainly would not go into any meeting alone, Id be taking a union rep.

And its also not good practice to keep an employee hanging on, unless this matter needs a lot of further investigation you should have a date for a meeting/hearing within a week or so.

Also, I wouldnt be discussing any of this with any colleague unless you want to call them as a witness in support of you.

Theres plenty you can do. You can start by asking for a copy of your employee handbook, copies of the grievance, disciplinary and investigation policies, copies of the bullying and harassment policy if they have one.

And I would also be asking your employer in writing why they chose to make this a work matter when this didnt happen at a work night out.

paulineb_2

If theres an allegation made about someone in the workplace, it can be practice to suspend the person who has had the allegation made against them. The suspension should be without prejudice, that is, its not an assumption of guilt.

I would be asking your employer why when an allegation has been made thats of a serious nature, were you not asked to stay at home on full pay until this was over. For your own protection, because having you in the workplace and having the person in the workplace who has made the allegation at the same time could just lead to more strife.

Also, as has been said above, Id be asking your rep to get in touch with your employer and ask why this was common knowledge within the workplace, but you werent told? Theres a clear breach of data protection, if someone makes a complaint about you formally they should also have been told not to discuss this with any other staff member.

And Id certainly be asking given all the gossip thats been flying around, how you are meant to get a fair hearing?

If statements are to be collected Id be asking the union rep how to go about that, or Id be asking could these people speak in person at your hearing.

RuthnJasper

Ronald50 wrote: »

No developments. Investigation postponed. Unsure when it will be. My complaint about him is being taken forward though.

I've got over the worst of my anger/fear and into a state of calm acceptance now. There's nothing more I can do but wait for the wheels of justice to turn.

Bad luck Ronald, but they really ought to keep you better informed - it's not good for anyone to have this hanging over their heads...

Maybe Mr. Creepy-Stare has either realised or been told what an utter t1t he looks because of his behaviour and complaint and has decided/been advised to drop the allegations against you.

Hopefully it'll all work out for the best in the end. Keep us posted!

Rx

Richard53

I've come late to this, and from the very start I have felt that the employer was being ultra-careful and following correct procedure to an almost unreasonable degree. If they guy is alleging racism, you now know why they have done this.

All the facts are in your favour. It was at a separate location from the works do, it was with invited guests (i.e. personal friends), and although you have admitted that you didn't behave well, the employer has no reason to take the slightest interest in the events of the evening. The fact that they are bending over backwards to follow a rigid process suggests to me that they are terrified of how this may turn out for them. They want to leave no room for any accusation that they behaved in a discriminatory manner towards the complainant.

I am guessing that all the gossip around the workplace has come from him, and not your HR people. That is even more in your favour, and you should make a point of mentioning it in your interview. Basically, if he felt you behaved in a racist manner towards him, he should have reported that to the police, and not brought it into the workplace.

Stay calm, tell the truth, be reasonable.