Help needed over possible disciplinary please!

paulineb_2

Ronald50 wrote: »

Hmm so I can't make any accusation of harassment against him even though he came uninvited to the pub and stood to one side of us, listening and staring? Perhaps it is better I put that grievance in before the investigation then?

That isnt harassment and I dont think thats worthy of a grievance. Ive been in jobs where Ive been harassed over long periods of time and when my grievance has gone in its been 8 pages long, of bullying incidents.

Someone looking at you the wrong way is not harassment and if you put a grievance against him, its going to be 2 lines long.

Im sorry you are going through this, but if I were you, my beef would be with your bosses who are taking this seriously and taking it further.

Because Ive managed staff in previous jobs and if anyone had come to me with a complaint I would have

1 spoken to each party individually
2 Spoken to them together and
3 Flung the grievance in the bin

Because when you have been in situations where you really need to put a grievance in against someone who is harassing you, you would see this for what it is, nonsense

And any counter complaints on your behalf, you might feel justified, but why are you doing it?

He puts in a complaint about you and then you put one in about him.

This whole issue could have and should have been sorted with a 5 minute conversation, no more and no less.

mountainofdebt

Ronald50 wrote: »

Right. Just heard from the leaver. He says we had a loud row where I told him nobody liked or trusted him and that he told tales. Also that he and the other man were approached by security and asked to take me home. I dimly recall that now, but what I did was just leave compliantly without fuss. Nodded and told him he was right and I was going. And I think this was at the front door area, not at the main bar. I know for a fact that I didn't cause any trouble about leaving.

So the fact that 'security had to ask me to leave' might be forming the basis of his disrepute claim. But doorstaff aren't the police, it's not a criminal matter and while I wouldn't deny being drunk, there was no trouble apart from the row. He might possibly have told the doorman I was a local govt employee and that he had to give a statement because I was behaving disreputably, but then surely that would be him drawing attention to the employer. Also, it's not within his remit to demand statements from people. Also, I didn't annoy the doorman, I just left so he has no reason to be vindictive.

Did your friend tell you exactly - not the gist - of what you said ?

Is there ANY chance that you used offensive language? Because if you did then I would guess that this is the basis of the compliant.

mountainofdebt

Ronald50 wrote: »

Maybe, but so did he. He told me to eff off out of his face and put his hand near my face.

What I meant was there any chance you could have referred to him being asian?

Ronald50

mountainofdebt wrote: »

What I meant was there any chance you could have referred to him being asian?

No. None whatsoever.

Ronald50

Just heard further from the leaver, who says there was no problem at all with the doorman, all was amiable and we left without incident. I knew that but good to have it corroborated.

It's looking increasingly likely that this man's case is made of lies.

RuthnJasper

Hi Ronald50 - I'm back again! Looking through this thread since I posted this morning I can see that you are revolving this way every single way in your mind to the extent that you're now considering issues involving race/disability discriminations.

With absolutely NO disrespect to you or to any of the the lovely people who have been offering you advice on this thread, I can say from experience that this isn't a particularly helpful way to pass your time before the investigation. I totally understand how much this is worrying you and preying on your mind, it's only natural in the circumstances. But tormenting yourself is not going to help, and no amount of worrying is going to change what has/hasn't already been said in the incident or to management.

I hope you'll forgive me, I don't mean any offence, but I wonder if you might be better-off in the short term if you read your first few posts on this thread, then switched off the PC for a while. Maybe go for a walk?

Once we know what's definitely been said then you will be better placed to act (and we'll still be here to ask for advice!). Otherwise, I can see this escalating to a point where you inadvertently convince yourself that you're going to be sacked for being a racist, foul-mouthed old thug and go into the meeting fully expecting this - only to be taken aback and look unprepared and gob-smacked when it isn't anything as extreme as this...

Apologies again for being preachy; I really don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds a bit like you're tormenting yourself over something you can't change until Tuesday, and you deserve better, I'm sure, than two days of that.

Keep smiling - I'm sure you'll be OK. xx

mountainofdebt

RuthnJasper wrote: »

Hi Ronald50 - I'm back again! Looking through this thread since I posted this morning I can see that you are revolving this way every single way in your mind to the extent that you're now considering issues involving race/disability discriminations.

With absolutely NO disrespect to you or to any of the the lovely people who have been offering you advice on this thread, I can say from experience that this isn't a particularly helpful way to pass your time before the investigation. I totally understand how much this is worrying you and preying on your mind, it's only natural in the circumstances. But tormenting yourself is not going to help, and no amount of worrying is going to change what has/hasn't already been said in the incident or to management.

I hope you'll forgive me, I don't mean any offence, but I wonder if you might be better-off in the short term if you read your first few posts on this thread, then switched off the PC for a while. Maybe go for a walk?

Once we know what's definitely been said then you will be better placed to act (and we'll still be here to ask for advice!). Otherwise, I can see this escalating to a point where you inadvertently convince yourself that you're going to be sacked for being a racist, foul-mouthed old thug and go into the meeting fully expecting this - only to be taken aback and look unprepared and gob-smacked when it isn't anything as extreme as this...

Apologies again for being preachy; I really don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds a bit like you're tormenting yourself over something you can't change until Tuesday, and you deserve better, I'm sure, than two days of that.

Keep smiling - I'm sure you'll be OK. xx

I agree with you to a certain extent but if I was the OP I would want to make sure that I had covered all the bases, whatever, they may be so that I wasn't thrown by any comments made

Ronald50

RuthnJasper wrote: »

Hi Ronald50 - I'm back again! Looking through this thread since I posted this morning I can see that you are revolving this way every single way in your mind to the extent that you're now considering issues involving race/disability discriminations.

With absolutely NO disrespect to you or to any of the the lovely people who have been offering you advice on this thread, I can say from experience that this isn't a particularly helpful way to pass your time before the investigation. I totally understand how much this is worrying you and preying on your mind, it's only natural in the circumstances. But tormenting yourself is not going to help, and no amount of worrying is going to change what has/hasn't already been said in the incident or to management.

I hope you'll forgive me, I don't mean any offence, but I wonder if you might be better-off in the short term if you read your first few posts on this thread, then switched off the PC for a while. Maybe go for a walk?

Once we know what's definitely been said then you will be better placed to act (and we'll still be here to ask for advice!). Otherwise, I can see this escalating to a point where you inadvertently convince yourself that you're going to be sacked for being a racist, foul-mouthed old thug and go into the meeting fully expecting this - only to be taken aback and look unprepared and gob-smacked when it isn't anything as extreme as this...

Apologies again for being preachy; I really don't mean to be harsh, but it sounds a bit like you're tormenting yourself over something you can't change until Tuesday, and you deserve better, I'm sure, than two days of that.

Keep smiling - I'm sure you'll be OK. xx

You are right of course. I am sitting here obsessing. I'll have a look at the garden now I think.

Ronald50

I'll be back on Tuesday. Once again, thank you everybody for the advice. It has kept me sane, I'd only have been making stuff up in my own mind and at least I've had different perspectives. But it is time to try to relax about this now. I feel more confident than I did, lets's hope matters don't go much further.

paulineb_2

Ronald50 wrote: »

Standing there uninvited, staring at a group of friends in the pub and listening in could be deemed harassment, especially if done with a view to picking up dirt on people, which he is well known for. Raising this sort of grievance could also be deemed harassment. Two connected acts of harassment could mean a charge under the protection from harassment act. That seems to be how the act works. But don't worry, I am not going there.

If you went into a police station and said someone was staring at me in the pub what do you think they would do?

Id be laughed out of my local station. I understand why you are upset and why you want to do something about it.

But raising a grievance isnt harassment, not in the true sense of the word.

And people can and do raise malicious grievances, I know what its like, Ive had many a difficult time in the workplace and I do know what its like to be under the stress of a disciplinary when you feel that you havent done anything to merit it

But I will say one thing, you'd be in a much stronger position if you hadnt had a drink and werent relying on people to fill in the blanks for you

And personally, I made the decision a long time ago, when I still worked for any companies, I dont anymore, that any kind of nights out that involved workmates and alcohol were a no no.

Because its not worth the stress and there always seems to be someone who might kick off if they have a few too many.