Back and Feeling rather ashamed!

ZTD

pania wrote: »

point taken. When you love someone and they come to you cap in hand first instinct is to try to help.

Yes it is. That leads to mothers buying heroin for their junkie child who is suffering withdrawl. Everyone from the dispassionate distance can see that isn't a good idea at all - but they don't like to see their loved ones suffering.

pania wrote: »

Have even told him today that i would speak to welcome to see if i could extend my loan to help him out and found me kicking myself as a result. I think he is taking me helping him for granted and knows that as i had such a negative experience with someone making me deliberately dependant on them that i would bend over backwards to help him whether financially, emotionally or any way possible. Perhaps i need to remove that crutch slightly,

No. Not slightly. He may have to drown for a while before he gets the hint that it's serious.

pania wrote: »

although i know through the difference in him and the fact that he has actually confessed all to me today that the light bulb is glowing brightly right now! not sure what to do for best now?

But is it? As Mr Fishburn said "There is a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path."

pania wrote: »

Point taken. Just not sure what to do for thebest.

Unfortunately, there isn't a "best". Things are going to hurt no matter what you do. It's a bit like being in a barrel on the edge of the Niagra falls. "The best" is not having got there in the first place - but that's not attainable any more.

pania wrote: »

i have no doubt due to recent changes in him that the lightbulb is glowing brightly right now, and i feel compelled to help him to redress the wrong done to me those few years ago.

By doing the exact same thing? There is a distinct possibility that he will resent you for your help.

pania wrote: »

To genuinely want to help rather than doing it to take someones independance and making them deliberately dependant on you.

But is doing the same thing going to lead to the same outcome? Drugs given by a kind mother are no less of a narcotic than given by someone else.

pania wrote: »

I think prob is he knows this and that i would bend over backwards and undermine myself to help him. Really not sure what to do for the best now.

First is self-preservation. It sounds hard - but it must be done. The second is not you bailing him out, but you both working together. If he slips, or doesn't pull his weight, he gets to drown for a while - just so he knows it's serious.

I hope you see what I'm saying.

Seaxwyn

ZTD makes some good points. But its also true that when you're in a relationship, you can't let one person drown without taking the other person under.

For example Pania has mentioned that she and her OH want to buy a house together. Well they can't do that if his credit rating is totally shot, can they?

Sometimes self-preservation can mean carrying another person. I have bailed out my OH for years and I know that doesn't help him, however the alternative would be to see our family hounded by creditors and maybe losing our home. I see my first responsibility to give the children a secure home, and that is incompatible with letting my OH drown.

pania

hey guys, is very early in the morning and i've just woken up so forgive if this doesn't make sense.
ZTD you make sme very salient points above and really got me thinking before going to bed last night. I know that it is wrong to "rescue" people as it were without helping them to see the error in their ways. I have seen OH go from being a total nightmare spendthrift (aka getting the car before the loan was approved) to how he is today and the realisation has dawn on him that he has to change.
In helping him financially which you all know i am in scant possition to do, i have undermined my own ability to get debt free quickly. he told me last night that he doesn't want me to hold him up anymore just to show him how to sort things out.
Saying that as i said above when you know that the person you love is struggling and you have been through the pain and heartbreak of loosing family through your debt situation it is natural to try to assist where possible.
(going to post before i loose this to be continued!)

pania

The difference between what i have done for OH and what my ex did to me is that my ex knowingly and willingly made me completely dependant on him. removing certain things from me to be able to do so, confidence included. He is the reason i got into this mess to start with.
With my OH i have been trying to help him with all the love and support that i can muster, not as i want him to be dependant on me cos then he won't leave IYSWIM which was the motivation behind my ex's help.

I really really do need to follow the advice re self preservation, but how? in effect what happens to OH as seaxwyn says really also happens to me.
god i'm confused now!

pania

I'm also thinking more and more that buying the house IS a good idea. I/we need security both finanical and life based. Although the mortgage repayments will be significantly higher than the rent we are paying right now, with £300 bessie buddy/lodger income we would be better off than we are now. I woul dhave some security if anything went wrong between OH and i knowing that we had the house we could sell (and not be in negative equity-it's a blo*dy nice house and once the build is complete on site, estate agency contacts have quoted it at approx £190k. Although here we are all against consolidation, i could easily lower my debt by 7k by doing so and can then concentrate on saving up massive chunks to pay the loan off.
anyhow enough of me rambling on at 0808 am, off to iron clothes now.

Seaxwyn

hi Pania

The good thing about this site is that we get to hear other people's views and opinions and test them against our own.

Only you really know what's best for you and your OH and if you have read and thought about ZTD's wise words and still feel that the best option is to support your OH in this, then that's probably the right decision. You are not doing it out of any emotional impulses that you haven't thought through.

I would be very cautious about the house, for example think about what you would do if the bessie buddy moved out. Our debt problems started when we bought our house. OK there were other factors, but owning is MUCH more expensive than renting - it's not just the mortgage.

In your profession I am sure you know more about this than I do! But my gut instinct is - don't rush into it.

Karmacat

Hi Pania

I haven't contributed much to your thread before, cos often the focus has been on OH, and it hasn't felt right to comment, but now you're talking about the *process*, of how it is between you, rather than individual actions, I hope you won't mind if I do comment. You're saying that there's a big difference between your actions and your ex's actions. And there is, you are rescuing your OH from love, and your ex was stealing your independence.

The thing is, there are similarities there too: extra money thrown your way by your ex ensured you didn't have your LBM. Extra money thrown your current OH's way by you have also stopped him having his LBM, till now. Its the psychology of the one in debt that has to be addressed, not the one doing the giving.

You can't let him drown, I understand that. But until he sees that his actions have consequences that he really, really hates, he has no reason to change. Thats what a LBM is. And you may think, well, he's had his LBM now, so I can help him. But it doesn't happen that quickly, those awful consequences have to be lived with for a while.

I really don't know how you do that in coupledom, it would be agony to watch him in pain and not help, but I do know that he has to join you on the road to debt freedom from his own volition, rather than you pulling him on board. I hope some of that makes sense: you're helping in the longer term by not rushing in to help in the short term. Like watching your child ride a bike for the first time knowing they might fall off and hurt themselves, but also knowing it has to be done.

COOKIEWILLOW

ah flower, your emotions must be all over place, try not to be so disheartened, when the !!!!!! hits the fan i always try and think "its only money/debt and no one has died!! dont know if im kidding myself there but i find if i dwell too much you just sink deeper into despair. member my MOT last week, well i forked out 50 for that, 112.75 for tax yesterday and now ive only gone and drove over broken glass and got a puncture!!:mad: ....grrrrrrrrrr so i limped/drove home from work, kicked the car, called it a rude name, and told it, it can bloody stay there until i get paid (which is end of august), just wondering what other lovely things going to happen to me today:rolleyes: oh well, least no ones died!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

sending you big hug cos you always there for me and others on this site, will remember you if i hit big one sat nite lotto

pania

hi karma thanks for posting, god have i really berated OH that much in past posts. that has never been my intention so i'm sorry if you've not posted. I think maybe i've been using the diary as a sounding board to let it all out on in the absence of any nearby buddies (hypno excluded) to have a typical girly goss with!
so apologies to beloved OH, if you ever read this i've never meant you to sound bad and b) to others if you've felt you've not wanted to post as a result of what i've put.
P
xx

Karmacat

pania wrote: »

hi karma thanks for posting, god have i really berated OH that much in past posts. that has never been my intention so i'm sorry if you've not posted. I think maybe i've been using the diary as a sounding board to let it all out on in the absence of any nearby buddies (hypno excluded) to have a typical girly goss with!
so apologies to beloved OH, if you ever read this i've never meant you to sound bad and b) to others if you've felt you've not wanted to post as a result of what i've put.
P
xx

Oh sweetie, its just that I haven't known what to put!! And maybe I *should* have posted saying I didn't understand your situation fully, maybe that would have helped... oh, I feel terrible now! Not terrible, but wishing I'd asked a question... :eek: :grouphug:
:coffee: There is no smilie for exactly what I'm trying to say, so this lot will have to do.

Karmacat
xx