Rang Ebay today.....

soolin

I'm sorry, but I cannot cater for the minority of buyers who are unaware that they need to pay for an item in a timely manner. I hope that all my buyers have a normal intelligence and don't need time limits spelt out for them.

Having to allow for those customers who are maybe not terribly bright is why we have got to the stage where if you buy a cup of coffee in McDonalds there is printing on the cup warning you that coffee might be hot.

What next , am I expected to remind people that their address needs to be correct otherwise their item might get lost, remind them they need to pay the postage element as postage costs money, remind them not to use sharp scissors when they open my boxes as they may hurt themselves if the scissors slip,

Seriously, the day I have to plead with a buyer to pay once they have ignored an invoice and the eBay general reminders, is the day I give up on eBay, and probably,humanity.

Oh, and I don't need big red angry writing thank you, maybe that explains the difference between us. I can read and understand things without having it in big letters. or is that a suggestion of how we should explain the time limits to our less able buyers?

theonlywayisup

StacFace wrote: »

Which one? There was one I didn't quote about the spring update news but that is about how soon you can open a NPB case, which is nothing to do with when a buyer has to pay by.



What case? How does the buyer bidding have anything to do with them knowing when they have to pay by?



If you're going to make comparisons you need to make them like for like.

With Tesco the contract is formed at the till and you are required to pay at that point. If you want this with your eBay items you need to set a buy-it-now price and select the option to require immediate payment when you list it.

With eBay auctions or buy-it-nows without the requirement for immediate payment ticked you are allowing the buyer to 'buy now pay later'. You will not find any business that runs on a 'buy now pay later' model without informing its customers of when 'later' is. There is a good reason for that and I'm honestly surprised people are having such trouble seeing it.



I'm sorry but this is just getting ridiculous now.

I AM NOT SAYING BUYERS MAY BE UNAWARE THEY NEED TO PAY FOR AN ITEM. I AM SAYING THEY MAY BE UNAWARE OF THE PAYMENT DEADLINE.


Opening a case against an eBayer, whether it's a seller opening a NPB one or a buyer opening an SNAD one, is supposed to be there as protection when your buyer/seller is not co-operating. You should only open one after attempting to remedy the issue directly with them. For SNAD cases this is telling the seller that you are unhappy so they can try to remedy the situation, for NPB cases this is telling the buyer you need payment by X date so they can ensure they pay you by your deadline.

You missed my post. Read back, if you can get through your font size.

Bidded? That may be another you may wish to revisit.

If you want to prove a point, use words that exist, preferably in the correct order and in a font that is legible.

As an aside....A seller cannot tick immediate payment for an auction....perhaps you should read through the help pages to get a grasp of ebaying, there are lots of people on here who could help if you need to start your own thread.

With eBay auctions or buy-it-nows without the requirement for immediate payment ticked......

StacFace

soolin wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I cannot cater for the minority of buyers who are unaware that they need to pay for an item in a timely manner. I hope that all my buyers have a normal intelligence and don't need time limits spelt out for them.

Having to allow for those customers who are maybe not terribly bright is why we have got to the stage where if you buy a cup of coffee in McDonalds there is printing on the cup warning you that coffee might be hot.

What next , am I expected to remind people that their address needs to be correct otherwise their item might get lost, remind them they need to pay the postage element as postage costs money, remind them not to use sharp scissors when they open my boxes as they may hurt themselves if the scissors slip,

Seriously, the day I have to plead with a buyer to pay once they have ignored an invoice and the eBay general reminders, is the day I give up on eBay, and probably,humanity.

Oh, and I don't need big red angry writing thank you, maybe that explains the difference between us. I can read and understand things without having it in big letters. or is that a suggestion of how we should explain the time limits to our less able buyers?

Ok then, since a person with normal intelligence knows payment deadlines without being told why don't you tell me the date I need to pay my monthly credit card bill by to avoid interest charges?

All those examples you've given are basic common sense. Knowing when a deadline is without being told is not common sense, it's mindreading and it's not an ability I expect from my buyers.

The reason for the red and big letters was because I've already stated numerous times in my replies that I'm not arguing that buyers don't know they need to pay, but that they don't know they need to pay by X date, yet your response was still just to say it was silly to suggest buyers don't know they need to pay. Of course that would be a ridiculous claim, but it's not the one I'm making.

soolin

StacFace wrote: »

Ok then, since a person with normal intelligence knows payment deadlines without being told why don't you tell me the date I need to pay my monthly credit card bill by to avoid interest charges?

All those examples you've given are basic common sense. Knowing when a deadline is without being told is not common sense, it's mindreading and it's not an ability I expect from my buyers.

The reason for the red and big letters was because I've already stated numerous times in my replies that I'm not arguing that buyers don't know they need to pay, but that they don't know they need to pay by X date, yet your response was still just to say it was silly to suggest buyers don't know they need to pay. Of course that would be a ridiculous claim, but it's not the one I'm making.

Using your credit card analogy, how do *you* know when to pay unless you check the terms and conditions on the card? you get your bill, you pay. Or maybe you sit and wait until they send you big red words on a final reminder as no one told you there was any sort of deadline?

Same as on eBay, you buy and eBay say 'now please pay for your item'. So a buyer ignores that, ignores any invoice sent, ignores the automatic eBay reminder on about day 3 , and you still think such a buyer has a normal intelligence.

I would stand by my opinion that anyone who ignores all the 'pay now' reminders and doesn't understand how eBay works should not be using eBay without supervision.

StacFace

theonlywayisup wrote: »

You missed my post. Read back, if you can get through your font size.

Bidded? That may be another you may wish to revisit.

If you want to prove a point, use words that exist, preferably in the correct order and in a font that is legible.

As an aside....A seller cannot tick immediate payment for an auction....perhaps you should read through the help pages to get a grasp of ebaying, there are lots of people on here who could help if you need to start your own thread.

The first 4 posts you made on the thread were before I even brought up buyers potentially not knowing they needed to pay by that date. After that there was the one about the spring update news, then telling another member to 'spam off', then the next one is when you said "you clearly missed my post". If you point out which one you mean I'll reply.

Bidded? Are you talking about a grammer mistake I made?

Unless you're referring to grammar slipping I don't know what you mean by 'words that don't exist' as I can't see where I've made up words or put them in the wrong order? I've used the standard font so it must be your computer screen playing up if it's illegible, unless you're referring to the big red letters which I've now explained in the above reply.

I'm aware that a seller can't require immediate payment for an auction, re-read the post and you'll see I said "If you want this with your eBay items you need to set a buy-it-now price and select the option to require immediate payment when you list it".

StacFace

soolin wrote: »

Using your credit card analogy, how do *you* know when to pay unless you check the terms and conditions on the card? you get your bill, you pay. Or maybe you sit and wait until they send you big red words on a final reminder as no one told you there was any sort of deadline?

Same as on eBay, you buy and eBay say 'now please pay for your item'. So a buyer ignores that, ignores any invoice sent, ignores the automatic eBay reminder on about day 3 , and you still think such a buyer has a normal intelligence.

I would stand by my opinion that anyone who ignores all the 'pay now' reminders and doesn't understand how eBay works should not be using eBay without supervision.

Checking the credit card T&Cs is the equivalent of going on the eBay help pages, which does not give a deadline and suggests you check the seller's listing for one. When I get my bill I don't pay straight away but because I have a deadline I can make sure I stick to it.

It's not the same on eBay because on eBay you don't get told your payment deadline. Unless, of course, the seller has put it in their listing or sent a message informing the buyer of it.

The automatic messages is also something I've addressed multiple times. They would be sent even if the seller couldn't care less how long you took to pay. An intelligent buyer could quite easily buy something and not pay until after all those have been sent for any number of reasons (on holiday, waiting for pay day and transferring money to their current account all being ones I mentioned before). If they've not been given any indication this wait will be a problem for the seller why would they unnecessarily inconvenience themselves making alternative arrangements?

It's not about not understanding how eBay works, as eBay does not give buyers set deadlines to pay by. It is the seller's responsibility to do that.

marie-20

A slight issue that I have with your logic StacFace is with BIN's. As they are BUY IT NOW's the logic (and yes it is logic rather than fact) would be that when you buy something you pay for it. You would not purchase anything else from anywhere else and not pay for it straightaway - the clue is in the title because to 'buy' something you are required to pay for it so logic would be that if you buy it now you pay for it now not next week or then end of the month or whatever date you decide.

Whilst I can understand your point in a way I believe that most buyers do not need to be hand held the way you are saying and in fact a lot of buyers would be quite annoyed to get an additional message requesting payment as they receive enough messages as it is.

eBay have now changed the payment date to 2 day and this outlined as a buyer 'rule' http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/unpaid-item.html:

When a buyer wins an item or uses Buy it now to purchase an item, the buyer is obliged to complete the purchase by sending full payment to the seller.


If a buyer doesn't pay within 2 days, a seller can open an unpaid item case in the Resolution Centre. If the buyer still doesn't pay or reach some other agreement with the seller, eBay may record the unpaid item on the buyer's account.



Again whilst is doesn't say MUST it does state that you are obliged to complete the purchase and that the seller can open an NPB after 2 days therefore I think that it should be accepted that payment is now expected after 2 days and it is part of eBay rules.


An example of a policy breach is:


Jay looks for a cooker on eBay and places a bid. After winning the item, he realises that posting the item will cost more than he's willing to spend. He decides not to send payment and simply ignores the invoices he receives.



Therefore, in your instances, the buyers are breaching eBay's policies and therefore T&C's by ignoring the invoices and not then making payment - this is before a NPB case is opened.

IF, and it is a big if, someone contacts me before I open a NPB to advise of late payment I will wait up to an extra week and if they contact me after a NPB has been opened to ask if they could pay a couple of days later I will again wait until that date passes and I think that a lot of sellers will be similar.

StacFace

marie-20 wrote: »

A slight issue that I have with your logic StacFace is with BIN's. As they are BUY IT NOW's the logic (and yes it is logic rather than fact) would be that when you buy something you pay for it. You would not purchase anything else from anywhere else and not pay for it straightaway - the clue is in the title because to 'buy' something you are required to pay for it so logic would be that if you buy it now you pay for it now not next week or then end of the month or whatever date you decide.

Whilst I can understand your point in a way I believe that most buyers do not need to be hand held the way you are saying and in fact a lot of buyers would be quite annoyed to get an additional message requesting payment as they receive enough messages as it is.

eBay have now changed the payment date to 2 day and this outlined as a buyer 'rule' http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/unpaid-item.html:

When a buyer wins an item or uses Buy it now to purchase an item, the buyer is obliged to complete the purchase by sending full payment to the seller.


If a buyer doesn't pay within 2 days, a seller can open an unpaid item case in the Resolution Centre. If the buyer still doesn't pay or reach some other agreement with the seller, eBay may record the unpaid item on the buyer's account.



Again whilst is doesn't say MUST it does state that you are obliged to complete the purchase and that the seller can open an NPB after 2 days therefore I think that it should be accepted that payment is now expected after 2 days and it is part of eBay rules.


An example of a policy breach is:


Jay looks for a cooker on eBay and places a bid. After winning the item, he realises that posting the item will cost more than he's willing to spend. He decides not to send payment and simply ignores the invoices he receives.



Therefore, in your instances, the buyers are breaching eBay's policies and therefore T&C's by ignoring the invoices and not then making payment - this is before a NPB case is opened.

IF, and it is a big if, someone contacts me before I open a NPB to advise of late payment I will wait up to an extra week and if they contact me after a NPB has been opened to ask if they could pay a couple of days later I will again wait until that date passes and I think that a lot of sellers will be similar.

Yeah I agree that with BINs logic does say to pay straight away and personally I always have done with these, but with auctions it definitely isn't clear.

Some buyers may be annoyed by an additional message but I think they'd be more annoyed if you opened a NPB case against them without sending the message first (or having 'pay within x days' in your listing). A NPB case is essentially you complaining to eBay that they've not paid so I think it is unfair to do it when you've not asked for payment by a certain date.

Maybe eBay should start putting 'you should pay by X date' in its reminder messages or telling buyers in some other way when they are expected to pay as atm all timeframe info I've heard has been aimed at sellers so if I was just a buyer I wouldn't have come across it. But unless and until they do that I definitely think sellers should be telling buyers before opening cases against them and I know I'll be sticking to that personally as a seller.

Though I disagree with my examples being a policy breach. The example there is someone who no longer wants the item because they've realised it will cost too much so ignores because they have no intention of paying. Here the buyer still intends to pay just not immediately, and if you see an invoice and think "paying on Friday" as you click delete then I wouldn't call that ignoring it.

chancesare_2

StacFace wrote: »

Yeah I agree that with BINs logic does say to pay straight away and personally I always have done with these, but with auctions it definitely isn't clear.

So if you accept that...then read what I put ealier. Not rocket science, easy to grasp for anyone....

chancesare wrote: »

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/unpaid-item.html

When a buyer wins an item or uses Buy it now to purchase an item, the buyer is obliged to complete the purchase by sending full payment to the seller.

If a buyer doesn't pay within 2 days, a seller can open an unpaid item case in the Resolution Centre. If the buyer still doesn't pay or reach some other agreement with the seller, eBay may record the unpaid item on the buyer's account.

So you win and you are obliged to send full payment. If you don't do that within 2 days you may have a case opened.

There is nothing more a person of normal intelligence needs to be told.

StacFace

chancesare wrote: »

So if you accept that...then read what I put ealier. Not rocket science, easy to grasp for anyone....

"Yeah I agree that with BINs logic does say to pay straight away and personally I always have done with these, but with auctions it definitely isn't clear."

I'm not going to make a massive post addressing everything you've previously written again, if you still don't understand after reading all this post then say specifically what part you don't get and I'll try to explain it in a different way.

So you win and you are obliged to send full payment. If you don't do that within 2 days you may have a case opened.

There is nothing more a person of normal intelligence needs to be told.

I completely agree.

The issue is the buyer isn't being told.

That link is to the help pages for sellers. It's not a page buyers are shown before signing up or before bidding. It's not one they're likely to casually come across.

It is there to inform sellers they can (not should) open a case within 2 days. Situations where it's fair to open within 2 days would be where the buyer tells you they're not going to pay or you say in your listing you want payment faster than this.

What you need to remember is lots of people buy on eBay without selling. The main thing that stands out from these arguments is that you assume that buyers have the same 'seller knowledge' as you do. A lot of them won't and you can't expect them to.