Do table manners matter any more?

jackel

Like Lillibet I too am old fashioned with regard to manners. I believe manners to be consideration for other people and so both at the table and in general it is just "good manners" to do nothing to embarras or annoy others. My grandmother also used to remind me that "Fine clothes don't make a lady" Anyway I LIKE having a door opened for me or to be allowed to go first etc It makes me feel good. Jacxx

lillibet_dripping

jackel wrote: »

Like Lillibet I too am old fashioned with regard to manners. I believe manners to be consideration for other people and so both at the table and in general it is just "good manners" to do nothing to embarras or annoy others. My grandmother also used to remind me that "Fine clothes don't make a lady" Anyway I LIKE having a door opened for me or to be allowed to go first etc It makes me feel good. Jacxx

And 'Manners maketh the man' ...

LittleMax

Regardless of how out dated it is, I like the formality of etiquette. It makes it a lot easier for everyone when a group are ordering in a restaurant if everyone knows the sequence for people to order in.

morganedge

Manners in general seem to have got a lot worse even in my lifetime (and i'm only in my 20's!) I notice it everywhere.

Do they get worse from generation to generation, or is it more of a recent thing, maybe to do with the pace of life, technology, and sociological reasons?

I wonder if things like opening doors for people, not using phones whilst eating, not eating with your mouth open etc will become extinct in, say, 100 years.

hilstep2000

When I was a Teacher I was always having to show children how to use a knife and fork, and to say "Please" and "Thank You."
My three year old grandughter knows how to eat properly. She always asks to leave the table as well, and sometimes she isn't allowed to, so she sits until she is told.
My son was still asking at 17! I then told him he didn't have to ask anymore!

My proudest moment was when he was about 7 and went to tea with another boy in his class. When I went to collect him, this boy's mum said "Hasn't he got beautiful manners"
I think it is very important, but others may disagree.

honeythewitch

Seakay wrote: »

They are no longer in loco parentis - they have many and varied constraints placed on them which no parent has and are actively prevented from teaching social skills and customs which might conflict with whatever is or isn't going on at home.

In the same way random adults no longer have the authority to tell children who have nothing to do with them what to do.

We'd think nothing of being told off for being noisy, running about in shops, making a mess, or whatever by any and all adults present - when was the last time you saw anyone do that? What would you expect to happen if you did?
Last time a saw someone remonstrate with a 10 yeear old who waas screaming and throwng things in the supermarket the mother suddenley showed up and tried to assault them while screaming abuse themselves.

Why should teachers take up the slack which society has created and which they get no thanks and face possible suspension, prosecution or even assault if they try?

I think it is a great shame if schools do not reinforce good manners, and it is unfair for the children to be disadvantaged by not knowing how to behave.
I dont think a teacher would be chastised for showing someone how to use a fork etc would they?

paulineb_2

My mum is a teacher, she also falls into the category of being older, shes 64 but looks fab for it and still working full time. She is in school every morning at around half 7. This year she has a class full of 28 kids, made up from 3 of last years classes, they've taken time to settle with one another, different abilities. She also has visually impaired and blind kids in her class (with support) and also teaches languages to some of the classes in her school, she used to be a French teacher. Seeing what she does over and above the job and also picking up on a point that was raised earlier, times have changed. There are so many rules re health and safety nowadays, what teachers might have got away with years ago re discipline they wont now.

As for etiquette, I have to confess I don't have a clue. For me, eating is a relaxed experience, not one where I have to go out wondering what rule I should be observing before I put a piece of food to my mouth. I dont chew food with my mouth open, Im not a noisy eater and I live alone so the only person who sees me eat is me.

But when Im out, I may not observe the etiquette that might be required of me if I were at a dinner party but I would say that neither do people I go for meals with. Theres no issue about who orders first, who gets served first or last. I think eating should be relaxed and having been brought up in a home where I was taught manners, but also one where things were fairly informal when it came to eating, I think in the scheme of things, me not knowing the precise table etiquette as set down in books years ago isnt such a big deal.

People these days spend so much time working shifts and crossing paths with one another that families probably dont sit down and have a meal with one another every night. I worked shifts for almost 20 years and a lot of my meals were eaten in the workplace.

If something matters to you, its important. But also speaking as someone who worked with young people for a long time, sometimes people come from homes that are so troubled, they might not get a meal on the table or they might be abused. Table manners in the scheme of some people's lives will probably be at the bottom of things that require fixing.

BitterAndTwisted

morganedge wrote: »

Manners in general seem to have got a lot worse even in my lifetime (and i'm only in my 20's!) I notice it everywhere.

Do they get worse from generation to generation, or is it more of a recent thing, maybe to do with the pace of life, technology, and sociological reasons?

I wonder if things like opening doors for people, not using phones whilst eating, not eating with your mouth open etc will become extinct in, say, 100 years.

I think some things have got worse over the years. Not sure if it's generations, though. I reckon it's mostly down to the democratisation of a lot of society, and the feeling that our betters were and are not any better than the rest. That not wanting to ape the middle and upper classes' complicated and unwanted etiquette means we've thrown the baby out with the bathwater, so no manners at all matter any longer to some. I suspect that if you never move geographically or socially you could be right but if you do want to progress in your career or be able to mix with other levels in society you're sentencing yourself to a terrible handicap.

At least, that was my Ma's explanation for wanting us to be able to go out and about in the world without embarrassing ourselves, or her.

Goldiegirl

Yes, I believe table manners still matter.

I don't want to be sharing my table with someone who shovels their food down their throat without taking a breath, or spending the whole time on their mobile phone.

Things like how they hold their knife and fork don't bother me too much. I know I hold mine right, but others have different ways of doing it.... it doesn't bother me.

Regarding ladies being served first, or elders, to me it's one of those traditional social niceties that I appreciate when it happens (which is most of the time in my experience), but I'm not offended if it doesn't

lillibet_dripping

paulineb wrote: »

My mum is a teacher, she also falls into the category of being older, shes 64 but looks fab for it and still working full time. She is in school every morning at around half 7. This year she has a class full of 28 kids, made up from 3 of last years classes, they've taken time to settle with one another, different abilities. She also has visually impaired and blind kids in her class (with support) and also teaches languages to some of the classes in her school, she used to be a French teacher. Seeing what she does over and above the job and also picking up on a point that was raised earlier, times have changed. There are so many rules re health and safety nowadays, what teachers might have got away with years ago re discipline they wont now.

As for etiquette, I have to confess I don't have a clue. For me, eating is a relaxed experience, not one where I have to go out wondering what rule I should be observing before I put a piece of food to my mouth. I dont chew food with my mouth open, Im not a noisy eater and I live alone so the only person who sees me eat is me.

But when Im out, I may not observe the etiquette that might be required of me if I were at a dinner party but I would say that neither do people I go for meals with. Theres no issue about who orders first, who gets served first or last. I think eating should be relaxed and having been brought up in a home where I was taught manners, but also one where things were fairly informal when it came to eating, I think in the scheme of things, me not knowing the precise table etiquette as set down in books years ago isnt such a big deal.

People these days spend so much time working shifts and crossing paths with one another that families probably dont sit down and have a meal with one another every night. I worked shifts for almost 20 years and a lot of my meals were eaten in the workplace.

If something matters to you, its important. But also speaking as someone who worked with young people for a long time, sometimes people come from homes that are so troubled, they might not get a meal on the table or they might be abused. Table manners in the scheme of some people's lives will probably be at the bottom of things that require fixing.

Any restaurant with well-trained waiting staff will automatically ask the ladies first when ordering and SHOULD also serve the ladies first without you even noticing. Likewise, they will not start to clear plates while somebody is still eating. That's why it's important to lay the knife and fork correctly on the plate when you have finished (i.e. at 6 'o clock) so that the waiting staff know that can start to clear.

I think it's also a shame that families don't sit down together at the end of the day and share a meal. It's probably why children are lacking in table manners. Sadly, the hectic pace of modern life is killing family tradition - even in my household, the kids are in and out, eating on the go and it saddens me that life has come to this sometimes.

I have very fond memories of family meals around the table, talking about our day. Often, my parents would discuss something they had heard on the news or read in the newspapers which we children absorbed without realising, thus learning about the world around us.