Faith Healer

VestanPance

Buick wrote: »

I haven't 'been reading' anything recently. But I do know people who practice it and use it. So anecdotal evidence suggests it does indeed work, and that for me is the main thing. It works. Even if 'science' says it can't or doesn't. Remember, science has proved that bees cannot fly!

Yes, as we said laughable.

heartbreak_star

Buick wrote: »

Remember, science has proved that bees cannot fly!

No. It theorised that they couldn't, then worked out why they can.

HBS x

Buick

Well, I can see I'm not going to convince you, but that's fine, I'm not setting out to!

But speaking generally (not just about homeopathy) anecdotes are the real stories of real people. Qualitative information is just an important as quantitative.

GlynD

Buick wrote: »

I haven't 'been reading' anything recently. But I do know people who practice it and use it. So anecdotal evidence suggests it does indeed work, and that for me is the main thing. It works. Even if 'science' says it can't or doesn't. Remember, science has proved that bees cannot fly!

The thing to remember, as I keep saying, is that: if you have faith in it and it works for you then it's good.

Buick

heartbreak_star wrote: »

No. It theorised that they couldn't, then worked out why they can.

HBS x

They measured the bee's weight and ratios and came to the conclusion that it cannot possibly fly. But of course they were faced with the glaringly obvious observation that it can. So they had to have a re-think. Science can be like that, - they set the parameters and don't acknowledge the limitations of seeing life purely through their own narrow viewpoint.

Person_one

Mojisola wrote: »

I think we are losing out by dismissing the placebo effect as if it doesn't bring about real healing. The effects are sometimes transitory but other times they do last.

It works on all levels - in tests, people given painkillers with a smart name in fancy packaging report better pain relief than when given the same tablets in cheap packaging and just called aspirin or paracetamol.

If giving a "healer" £10 provokes your own body into healing itself, it's a bargain. That's not much more than the price of one prescription!

This is with the proviso that you have already been checked out by a doctor so that you know what you're dealing with.

Its the dishonesty that I find galling, its exploitation of the vulnerable.

There's no ethical way to harness the usefulness of the placebo effect, unfortunately. Although some research shows that placebos can work even if the patient is told explicitly that they are being given a placebo, which is pretty fascinating!

Person_one

Buick wrote: »

Qualitative information is just an important as quantitative.

It can be, but when you're trying to determine if a treatment if effective or not, then a randomised controlled trial with a large sample size is the only way to go, and none of those show that homeopathy 'works' other than as a placebo.

heartbreak_star

Buick wrote: »

They measured the bee's weight and ratios and came to the conclusion that it cannot possibly fly. But of course they were faced with the glaringly obvious observation that they can. So they had to have a re-think. Science can be like that, - they set the parameters and don't acknowledge the limitations of seeing life purely through their own narrow viewpoint.

This is the kind of attitude that irritates those of us that studied for years to gain science qualifications and now work in the field.

So your first line is not a conclusion. They measured the bee's weight and ratios and theorised that it shouldn't be able to fly. They then did a large amount of observations and experimentation to see why they can fly. It's pretty exciting finding out why something works when it shouldn't!

Science is probably the least narrow-minded thing you will ever find, IMO (and IM experience). We find something that happens or doesn't happen, and look into the reasons behind it. That's how it's a well known fact that homeopathy, aromatherapy and reflexology don't work (any benefits of the latter two are likely to be from the massage, not the alternative therapy).

HBS x

EDIT: I love this forum - faith healing to bees in one thread

VestanPance

Don't go bringing facts into this!

Not before I've got my Vestan's sugar pills cure all diseases project off the ground.

Buick

heartbreak_star wrote: »

So your first line is not a conclusion. They measured the bee's weight and ratios and theorised that it shouldn't be able to fly. They then did a large amount of observations and experimentation to see why they can fly. It's pretty exciting finding out why something works when it shouldn't!

I am curious as to why they needed to theorise that it can't fly. Clearly it can. So their sums were wrong! I do admire science and we couldn't live life as we do without the knowledge and skill of the amazing individuals who made discoveries, be it in medicine, engineering or whatever discipline. But for me, believing that everything has to be explainable by mathematical equations and statistics is too narrow.