Parking Charge Notice-P4parking-problem with appeal

Coupon-mad

I think they ARE breaking the rules - or at least something odd is going on.

This is a new PPC still in the first six months I think, so they can only use paper application to get DVLA data.

Yet they aren't bothering, they are geting their Debt Collector to use their own EDI link to get the data on their behalf. One wonders why? One wonders what would happen if this PPC were banned from getting DVLA data - would the Debt Collector still be getting the data for them?

I would simply email and ask all this to the DVLA:

[EMAIL="Elizabeth.Symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]Elizabeth.Symons@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

this is she, and she does respond, after a fashion! :rotfl:

Elizabeth Symons Data Assurance and Complaince Manager
Data Sharing Team C1/East DVLA Swansea SA6 7JL


HTH

annaspanna

I submitted a thread on here a couple of weeks ago in relation to a ticket I had from P4parking. I received very helpful advice.
Today, weeks after submitting the appeal and a fair amount of tooing and froing - mainly while they were trying to extract my address details, they said the appeal is rejected.
They have not answered any of the queries I raised - I was in a bay marked visitors, late in the evening, not blocking anyone else or there being cost implications to anyone. I did not realise it was just for visitors to the on site estate agency - although a subsequent email from them said there were no time restrictions for parking there. Neither have they given me a copy of the landowners terms and conditions for parking which I asked for (as I had apparently agreed to them).
Anyway if I appeal through POPLA I will have to give my name and address which I guess will then be passed to P4parking so am I better to;
pay the charge

ignore any further correspondance (if debt collectors contact me I will want to establish exactly how they got my info)

appeal to POPLA and come to terms with the fact that this will mean giving up my name and address details.

The BPA website says they do not use debt recovery - does this mean they will not push the matter to the courts and I am therefore better to avoid further correspondance?

In the past I have paid these tickets through "fear" but am more aware now and while I want to really make my point to P4 and make them pay for the POPLA appeal I may be better to just "let it drop".

Thank you for any advice anyone can give :-)

annaspanna

My poorly written reply from p4, grammar not their strong point!

Parking charges issue date 19/02/2013 at Location: P040- Royal Arsenal (Roadways)
Thank you for your letter dated 21/02/2013, which has been passed for our attention and which we have read with interest.
Further to and in response to your appeal, P4Parking has been contracted by the landowners or agents thereof to ensure that vehicles are only allowed to be parked on the land with authority.
This authority is dependent upon the rules as laid down by the landowners or bodies acting on behalf of such estate, land or development. P4Parking has the authority to charge any vehicle that is parked contrary to these regulations.
The area where your vehicle was charged has a policy to which all attending vehicles must park within the pre-informed parking criteria. The offence you have been breached with specifically is for:
 No Parking permission on system
With regards to your appeal of the parking charge issued and having inspected all data available, which includes your letter and contents of appeal, photographs taken at the time of the charge issued by the warden and all additional 3rd party information available to us, I must make the following points very clearly.
It is the responsibility of the person parking to demonstrate the correct display of the relevant permit and or adherence to the rules governing the parking of the vehicle(s) within the grounds. If in doubt, P4Parking operates a 24 hour manned control-room whose staffs are willing and able to advice on the validity of your parking prior to any charge being issued. This contact number is available on any P4Parking warning notice and is placed throughout the private grounds as well as being on all permit documenAlthough I sympathise with your concerns, at the time of your vehicle contravention and subsequent issuance with a Parking Charge Notice there was No Parking permission on system and was therefore correctly charged under the power given to us by the landowner.
After careful consideration, therefore, I must advise you that your application for a PCN cancellation has been denied.
You have the legal right to submit a second appeal to POPLA (please see attached forms). P4Parking cannot deal with any subsequent appeal relating to this PCN.
Furthermore, it is our duty to inform you that you should choose to submit to POPLA, you will lose all the opportunities to pay the discount rate.
You have fourteen days from the date this letter was sent to you to pay the PCN reduced rate of £65.00. After this period, please be aware that you have to pay the full charging fee amount of £100.00.
You can make the payment choosing one of the alternatives:
 Send us a cheque by post
 By postal order on the address written on the bottom of the ticket
 Online, visiting
Choosing not to pay will give us the freedom to legally solve this problem. I am sorry that this is not the answer for which you would have hoped.ts issued by and on behalf of P4Parking.

trisontana

Did they give you a POPLA code? If not then they are breaching BPA guidelines and should be reported.

SodG24

I'd appeal to POPLA - you have nothing to lose at all - in fact you can get a small bit of revenge for the previous tickets you paid by costing the PPC £32. PM Coupon Mad for the appeal wording ( sorry for volunteering you CM ! ).

Giving up your address now means nothing.

annaspanna

Hi
I have the POPLA code and have checked the BPA terms which I think they have breached in a few places and not offered the 40% discount, neither did they respond to my request to see the terms and conditions to which I had allegedly agreed to, as laid out by the landowner. They have not listed an ID of the person issuing the ticket and the ticket does not state they will retrieve details from the DVLA (in an email they sent me they admitted they pass it on and I am aware that a third party is not allowed to access DVLA on their behalf). I consider they did not clearly reflect the conditions for using the visitor parking . Their sign says they issue a parking ticket, the envelope says parking infringement notice and inside parking charge notice. I am not sure if this is relevent or not but the terminology is confusing for a layman such as myself. They also advised initially they could not respond without me giving them my name and address and concerned themselves with trying to extract that information rather than addressing the issues raised in my appeal - of which they answered none of the queries I raised with them. I am going to try and put together a draft of the appeal and then ask for advice please :-)

SodG24

annaspanna wrote: »

Hi
I have the POPLA code and have checked the BPA terms which I think they have breached in a few places and not offered the 40% discount, neither did they respond to my request to see the terms and conditions to which I had allegedly agreed to, as laid out by the landowner. They have not listed an ID of the person issuing the ticket and the ticket does not state they will retrieve details from the DVLA (in an email they sent me they admitted they pass it on and I am aware that a third party is not allowed to access DVLA on their behalf). I consider they did not clearly reflect the conditions for using the visitor parking . Their sign says they issue a parking ticket, the envelope says parking infringement notice and inside parking charge notice. I am not sure if this is relevent or not but the terminology is confusing for a layman such as myself. They also advised initially they could not respond without me giving them my name and address and concerned themselves with trying to extract that information rather than addressing the issues raised in my appeal - of which they answered none of the queries I raised with them. I am going to try and put together a draft of the appeal and then ask for advice please :-)

Post it here once written and we'll check it. Just remember not to ramble - just list the points you wish to appeal on and why. People tend to think the more words the better in these situations but specific and punchy always works better.

The_Slithy_Tove

SodG24 wrote: »

Post it here once written and we'll check it. Just remember not to ramble - just list the points you wish to appeal on and why. People tend to think the more words the better in these situations but specific and punchy always works better.

Also, brief, concise letters/appeals

• make sure that you don't give away information that can be twisted
• don't leave irrelevant loose ends for the company/POPLA to play with as a diversion from the main issue

annaspanna

I guess I tick the box saying the car was not improperly parked, but I also consider the charge was excessive, but the first seems more relevant? this is just my first draught for comments :-) I think it may be a bit contradictory and out of context to the reader, although I have photos to send with the appeal. Guess I don't need to send copies of emails to p4 as popla will ask them for them if they want to see them. Thankyou again for your help. I never realised these companies were so unjust and improper!

Reasons for appeal

The car was parked in a clearly marked visitor bay. The word VISITORS was written on the ground in front of the spaces and signs on neighbouring bays stated they were for Berkley Home staff and visitors. Regardless, The drivers bay did not have any signage indicating it was only for Berkley home visitors.

Neither the parking sign or the ground markings indicate visitors can only park at certain times. Neither does it advise how to obtain permission to use them. Correspondance from Berkley homes advised there are no time restrictions.

The parking sign does not clearly relate to visitor bays or make reference to them. It is therefore not clearly indicated there are conditions attached to the use of parking particularly set aside for visitors of the complex.

On arrival the driver noted the Berkley homes office was closed, only one night a week is late opening and this was not realised at the time of the visit.

As the office was closed staff or visitors to the office did not need to use any of the visitor bays. The driver was not causing an obstruction or stopping others using the bays.

P4parking did not supply the driver with the requested terms and conditions that had allegedly been breached. This was requested as proof that parking in a visitor bay was a breach, particularly as it contradicts information given by Berkley homes, and the related cost to the landowner ( who may even be Berkley homes).

P4Parking did not offer the BPA advised discount of at least 40% offering a discount of only 35%

P4Parking did not detail on the ticket that they may contact the DVLA to retrieve owner details. They advised in Correspondance that they use a third party to obtain the details which is considered by the driver to be a breach of their BPA terms and conditions.

P4Parking stated initially they would not process the appeal unless an address was provided, they continued to make attempts to obtain address information until the driver advised it was unreasonable and an email response was required.

P4Parking did not state the details of the person who left the ticket on the issued charge notice. The driver considers this a breach of the BPA conditions.

There are inconsistencies in the ticket description. The signage indicates a parking ticket could be issued to people breaching the landowners terms. The ticket was inside a wallet stating it was a parking infringement notice. The actual ticket states it is a parking charge notice.

P4parking has not answered the drivers query as to the cost to the landowner of using the visitor space.

Coupon-mad

Also tick the first box, the general appeal point 'I am not liable for the parking charge' or whatever such drivel it's called.

Here's another thread about Berkeley Homes using a PPC, this poster is taking the matter up in a direct complaint/Letter before Action to Berkeley Homes (please note the correct spelling):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4486797

You say that 'correspondence from Berkeley homes advised there are no time restrictions' - get a copy of that and include it in your evidence for POPLA.

I would get rid of this bit:

[STRIKE]and the related cost to the landowner ( who may even be Berkley homes).[/STRIKE]

Slight typo noticed here:

'They advised in Correspondance' should be 'They advised in correspondence'

And

'The driver considers this a breach of the BPA conditions'

should be 'The driver considers the points about the 'ticket' and signage as indicating several breaches of the BPA Code of Practice'.

And add that you require POPLA to scrutinise a copy of the contract the parking firm alleges they have with the landowner and/or Berkeley Homes, because if it's as bad as the ticket and signage is, then you contend that any contract relied upon by P4 will not be BPA Code of Practice compliant. And if P4 do not include a copy of the contract then of course you require POPLA to cancel the fake PCN.


HTH