Parking Charge Notice-P4parking-problem with appeal

Umkomaas

bod1467 wrote: »

I have copied your post to the POPLA Decisions thread.

And me :rotfl:

I've now deleted mine so as to save any double-counting of victories. We don't want to get ahead of ourselves!

bod1467

I guess you deleted yours once you saw mine?

nigelbb

Well done annaspanna. Who was the assessor?

The highlighted portion below is slightly worrying for the future. It would appear that BPA Ltd have been leaning on the POPLA assessors.

annaspanna wrote: »

The Appellant challenged whether the Operator had a valid contract to enforce parking restrictions at the site. It would not have been necessary for the Operator to produce the entire contract to address this issue. However, the Operator has failed to deal with this submission in any way. On balance, I can therefore not find that the Operator had a valid contract under which to issue the disputed parking charge.

Accordingly, the Operator has failed to prove that the PCN was validly issued.

The appeal is allowed.

bod1467

That's exactly the bit I highlighted in the Appeals thread.

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62079623&postcount=87

So what WOULD have been acceptable?

Umkomaas

Maybe in future appeals should require proof of the operator's standing via sight of the full contract (redacted in terms of financial detail).

Removes some of the wriggleroom.

mrxx

Sorry if i'm asking in the wrong place, but it the same location (P040-Royal Arsenal (Roadways)
At the end of February after 9pm parked there and received Parking charge notice, reason: no parking permit on visible display.
Didnt know they operate there , because before there was no problem with parking, and it was after 9pm
Company name: P4Parking

As my friend suggested and I saw few reports on forums , I ignored PCN. But 10days ago I received "Notice to Keeper or Hirer" from company : Parking Collection Services.
its states:

We have obtained your details from DVLA under a reasonable cause request as you were the registered keeper of the vehicle specified at the time of the parking incident shown. A Parking charge has been issued under the terms of shedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Your vehicle was involved in breaching the stated terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed via signage ang agreed to by the driver when your vehicle was parked on land managed by our client P4Parking.

ANotice to Driver providing details of the incident, was issued via a parking charge notice that was affixed to the vehicle screen. The driver was required to pay the parking charge specified withing 28 days of issue. The opportunity to pay at hte reduced rate has now passed and the full amount is now ude.

As the charge has not yet been paid and we do not hold a record of the drivers name or address, we are writing to you as th ekeeper of the vehicle. As such we now inviete you to make payment of ther parking charge shown or if you were not the driver of vehicle at the time of the incident to notify us, acting on behalf on P4Parking, of the name and current seviceable address of the driver so that we can pass this charge onto him/here.

If within 28d of the issue of this Notice to Keeper you fail to provide us with detaisl of the driver at the time of the incident then under the terms of schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 you are liable for the Parking charge as keeper at the time of incident. At this stage we may pass the account to a debt recovery company where futher cots may be added.

If the vehicle is a hire vehicle and was no hire at the time of the incident shown, please seee overleaf for further details.

---

Whats worries me, that they say that they are members of british parking association BPA, and approved operator.
I thought p4parking is not a member thats why i ignored

Any suggestions what to do next?
Ignore ?


Thank you

Coupon-mad

mrxx wrote: »

Sorry if i'm asking in the wrong place, but it the same location (P040-Royal Arsenal (Roadways)

Thank you

You are asking in the wrong place as we must have a new thread for each case. On a parking forum where the dates and details are paramount with appeals, we have to have a separate thread for each incident.

See my signature for where to click, it's ONE click to see the current thread (not just this old random one that happens to be about the same location).

Location is irrelevant. Current advice is what you need to read, so click where my signature explains you must, to see current threads. Read a load of them about ANY location and any fake PCN from ANY private parking company (PPC for short on this forum).

Then when you have a question (after reading current advice) start your own thread on the forum you will be looking at, using the new thread button there. Please read up on fake PCNs first though, read threads first as it really does get like Groundhog Day on this forum sometimes, today being one of those days...as you will see form the current answers!!

Umkomaas

Sorry if i'm asking in the wrong place, but it the same location (P040-Royal Arsenal (Roadways)

You are to a degree. You need to start a brand new thread 1 case, 1 thread which means any advice on this thread which should be exclusively directed at the OP, doesn't get mixed up with advice given to you. This can lead to confusion, which could prove expensive to either or both of you.

A simple copy and paste of your post into the new thread will suffice. Just think of a new title for it.

Help on the way then.

EDIT C-m beat me to me to the punch - the penalty for stopping mid-typing, then slinking off to top up the wine glass

annaspanna

mrxx wrote: »

Sorry if i'm asking in the wrong place, but it the same location (P040-Royal Arsenal (Roadways)
At the end of February after 9pm parked there and received Parking charge notice, reason: no parking permit on visible display.
Didnt know they operate there , because before there was no problem with parking, and it was after 9pm
Company name: P4Parking

As my friend suggested and I saw few reports on forums , I ignored PCN. But 10days ago I received "Notice to Keeper or Hirer" from company : Parking Collection Services.
its states:

We have obtained your details from DVLA under a reasonable cause request as you were the registered keeper of the vehicle specified at the time of the parking incident shown. A Parking charge has been issued under the terms of shedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. Your vehicle was involved in breaching the stated terms and conditions of parking which were clearly displayed via signage ang agreed to by the driver when your vehicle was parked on land managed by our client P4Parking.

ANotice to Driver providing details of the incident, was issued via a parking charge notice that was affixed to the vehicle screen. The driver was required to pay the parking charge specified withing 28 days of issue. The opportunity to pay at hte reduced rate has now passed and the full amount is now ude.

As the charge has not yet been paid and we do not hold a record of the drivers name or address, we are writing to you as th ekeeper of the vehicle. As such we now inviete you to make payment of ther parking charge shown or if you were not the driver of vehicle at the time of the incident to notify us, acting on behalf on P4Parking, of the name and current seviceable address of the driver so that we can pass this charge onto him/here.

If within 28d of the issue of this Notice to Keeper you fail to provide us with detaisl of the driver at the time of the incident then under the terms of schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012 you are liable for the Parking charge as keeper at the time of incident. At this stage we may pass the account to a debt recovery company where futher cots may be added.

If the vehicle is a hire vehicle and was no hire at the time of the incident shown, please seee overleaf for further details.

---

Whats worries me, that they say that they are members of british parking association BPA, and approved operator.
I thought p4parking is not a member thats why i ignored

Any suggestions what to do next?
Ignore ?


Thank you

Hi, I know your request for info has moved to another link now. But aside from the whole appeal process - yes it is the same location. I was parked in the visitor spaces near the Berkley office. Another friend was also directed to use those spaces when visiting the site so not sure if it is a new change to employ P4. They are BPA but its worth checking with the DVLA that they were permitted to obtain your details. I contacted them and they said they had never had any requests from P4, third parties can not make a request using the P4 access code (See above threads and other threads for specifics) so the advisor said to contact them if I ever heard any more about the ticket. The point being, it is worth contacting the DVLA to check that the company who obtained your details did so legitimately. Regardless the POPLA appeal was won because P4 didn't respond. My original appeal to them was answered really badly and they did not address any of the points raised. Good luck.
PS - I never disclosed my address details and it was acceptable with POPLA to solely correspond by email.

annaspanna

The assessor was Matthew Shaw.