Parking Charge Notice-P4parking-problem with appeal

nigelbb

The_Gus_Bus wrote: »

IF it came to court ( and it won't ! ) then you don't need to only use what you put forward for a POPLA appeal. POPLA is a gimmick - a pointless one at that.

My point was that not allowing proper submission of evidence would show up POPLA for the sham that it is.

annaspanna

After querying whether p4 parking can access my information through an electronic link /are they in probationary period, and a request as to whether debt collectors can access DVLA - here is their reply:
[FONT=&quot]I have been passed your correspondence to respond to. I can confirm that P4Parking don’t currently have access to the electronic Keeper at Date of Event (KADOE) service which took over from the EDI Bureau 16 months ago. They haven’t made any manual enquiries either as I have checked our vehicle database. If payment isn’t received in regards to the contravention within the 28 day period then Parking companies are entitled to pass the debt to a debt collection agency. That debt collection agency has a duty to check the vehicle keeper before chasing the debt and several debt collection agencies have an electronic link to obtain keeper data from DVLA and the reasonable cause to do so. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A company has to complete a minimum 6 month probationary period requesting manually before they can obtain DVLA data electronically. During the probationary period we monitor how many enquiries are made, how often they are made and we set up google alerts to ensure there is no adverse press attention in regards to that company. I have checked and P4Parking aren’t currently in the process of serving a probationary period. [/FONT]

I think it is really bad that debt collection agencies are able to access the DVLA. If the parking company wants the information they should obtain it themselves. I am going to ask P4 for the name of their debt collectors and then ask DVLA to check and see if they have made requests. Regardless of the POPLA decision it would be interesting to know! However I doubt I will receive a response from P4 as they will not answer any queries now they have given their final response.

Guys_Dad

Anna - I may have missed it in all the previous posts but do you actually have a POPLA code?

I seem to have read somewhere that POPLA do not consider appeals without one. Reasonable, under the circumstances, as they won't have had their fee from the PPC if the PPC hasn't issued any code.

See this from their web site
How to appeal

An appeal form, containing your 10 digit verification code, should be sent by the operator with the rejection of your representations. If this form is not enclosed, the operator should be contacted to obtain one.

Stroma

annaspanna wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]I have been passed your correspondence to respond to. I can confirm that P4Parking don’t currently have access to the electronic Keeper at Date of Event (KADOE) service which took over from the EDI Bureau 16 months ago. They haven’t made any manual enquiries either as I have checked our vehicle database. If payment isn’t received in regards to the contravention within the 28 day period then Parking companies are entitled to pass the debt to a debt collection agency. That debt collection agency has a duty to check the vehicle keeper before chasing the debt and several debt collection agencies have an electronic link to obtain keeper data from DVLA and the reasonable cause to do so. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A company has to complete a minimum 6 month probationary period requesting manually before they can obtain DVLA data electronically. During the probationary period we monitor how many enquiries are made, how often they are made and we set up google alerts to ensure there is no adverse press attention in regards to that company. I have checked and P4Parking aren’t currently in the process of serving a probationary period. [/FONT]

So going by that then, parking companies do not have to be in the AOS, so somebody like VP Parking Solutions, recently expelled from the BPA. Could go to Roxburghe get them to get RK details, then they chase the motorists. Which makes you wonder what is the point of ATA or an AOS scheme if anyone going through a debt collector like Roxburghe can get the details.

Its shocking really, what about the DPA and ICO on this?

nigelbb

Companies who issue parking charges have to be a member of AOS before they can request details. If they are not members their request will be refused according to the small print on the application form http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065259.pdf

Debt collectors can get details of the registered keeper if the debt is associated with the car & this includes parking charges. See the last page of this document. http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_193598.pdf

Stroma

nigelbb wrote: »

Companies who issue parking charges have to be a member of AOS before they can request details. If they are not members their request will be refused according to the small print on the application form http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_065259.pdf

Debt collectors can get details of the registered keeper if the debt is associated with the car & this includes parking charges. See the last page of this document. http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_193598.pdf

Yes but what happens when a parking company not in the BPA asks a company like Roxburghe to try and collect the debt ?

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

Yes but what happens when a parking company not in the BPA asks a company like Roxburghe to try and collect the debt ?

If the debt originated
from another
organisation, the
name of this
organisation.
What the debt relates
to. i.e. How the
vehicle is involved.
If the debt relates to
a parking charge, the
issuing organisation
must be a member of
an ATA, unless it was
issued by a Local
Authority.

If Roxburghe lied, they are in trouble.

Stroma

Guys_Dad wrote: »

If Roxburghe lied, they are in trouble.

Yeah I saw that after I posted lol, about Roxburghe lying, they lie every bloody day, they lie about Graham White, they lied about when they had this on their website, and the reason I got them banned from the dvla data link

Who is responsible for paying the charge?
Legally the owner/keeper of the vehicle is responsible and it is the owner/keeper who will be pursued in any further action. If the owner/keeper indicates that another person is responsible, further enquires will be made. Ultimately.

What happens if I lose my appeal but refuse to pay? If you lose your appeal to you must pay the PCN. If you refuse, the amount of the PCN may increase and legal action may be taken to recover the amount of money due.

Guys_Dad

Stroma wrote: »

Yeah I saw that after I posted lol, about Roxburghe lying, they lie every bloody day, they lie about Graham White, they lied about when they had this on their website, and the reason I got them banned from the dvla data link

I notice that they have a BPA AOS "badge of honour" on their web site. Just how do they get that if they are not a PPC?

It would, however, allow them to get the DVLA data direct, though, would it not? Even for "clients" who may not themselves be BPA members?

This stinks.

Coupon-mad

Stroma wrote: »

Yes but what happens when a parking company not in the BPA asks a company like Roxburghe to try and collect the debt ?

They can't, it's not allowed. TNC debt collectors tried that didn't they, last year, and the DVLA got involved. It's a complete no-no.

annaspanna wrote: »

[FONT=&quot]I have been passed your correspondence to respond to. I can confirm that P4Parking don’t currently have access to the electronic Keeper at Date of Event (KADOE) service which took over from the EDI Bureau 16 months ago. They haven’t made any manual enquiries either as I have checked our vehicle database. If payment isn’t received in regards to the contravention within the 28 day period then Parking companies are entitled to pass the debt to a debt collection agency. That debt collection agency has a duty to check the vehicle keeper before chasing the debt and several debt collection agencies have an electronic link to obtain keeper data from DVLA and the reasonable cause to do so. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]A company has to complete a minimum 6 month probationary period requesting manually before they can obtain DVLA data electronically. During the probationary period we monitor how many enquiries are made, how often they are made and we set up google alerts to ensure there is no adverse press attention in regards to that company. I have checked and P4Parking aren’t currently in the process of serving a probationary period. [/FONT]

That reply from the DVLA makes no sense to me. If this firm have no EDI link and are not in a probationary period then are they even properly in the AOS scheme, it makes zero sense.

You may like to register on pepipoo and ask Broadsword by pm to take a look at this one as I can't get my head around this at all. Broadsword is the person to shed light on this, he posted on this thread:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77301

It makes no sense that an apparently newbie AOS member can circumvent the usual 'manual applications probationary period' and I think the DVLA managers need to answer this query of yours in a much clearer way than they have done. To me it looks like a clerk has replied to you who doesn't know that a debt collector cannot use their link for the benefit of a PPC who have no link.

I would be wanting to know how many EDI enquiries have been made on behalf of P4Parking and who by, and why this has been allowed at all for a firm with no EDI link and no manual applications made? It may need an FOI request to get this information out of the DVLA but broadsword may be able to to advise.