Flight delay compensation, US and Canadian Airlines

jcocker

Tyzap wrote: »

Hi Jcocker,

You've been through a very unfortunate incident, what it highlights is that you need to take into account how the EU regulations work right from the point of booking your flights.

For future reference, you can book any airline leaving the UK and still be covered but on your return you would be better off by booking a UK airline otherwise you're not covered.

Had you booked your flights the other way around you would have been covered in both directions.

IMO the CAA should ensure that this is made clear when using and booking through BA.com. It's a constant problem to unsuspecting passengers who generally think BA website means BA flights, unfortunately it doesn't.

Good luck.

Agreed 100% !

Unfortunately the holiday was booked in a hurry, and we didn't even realise that the return leg was operated by AA until the day before we were due to fly back...

I am taking full responsibility for this, and can assure you that using an EU-operator on not in the future, American Airlines will never, ever, have our business again...
In addition to the above, the planes they operate from the US to Europe are very old 757's, with no entertainment system at all, and the seats and pitch are smaller than those you would get on a domestic flight within the UK (for a 7 hour flight...). I would rather swim than use them again next time

jcocker

Caz3121 wrote: »

EU261 duty of care does not apply and US carriers tend not to provide accommodation for weather delays so you would be predicating the claim based on the delay not being weather, may be simpler to speak to your travel insurance

Our delay/cancellation was 100% not due to the weather as AA claim. We are certain that the real reason was economical - it was much cheaper for them (well free) at that stage to simply dump the plane-load of passengers on available seats on other flights (people returned via London, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam, etc) over the next 2 days than to operate the plane.

Problem we have is that it would be all but impossible for us to prove this. Unfortunately we don't know anyone else who was on the original flight with us.

Caz3121

The part to follow would be out of their Conditions of Carriage
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp#delays
"When cancellations and major delays are experienced, you will be rerouted on our next flight with available seats. If the delay or cancellation was caused by events within our control and we do not get you to your final destination on the expected arrival day, we will provide reasonable overnight accommodations, subject to availability."
I would argue that the staff that informed you of the process believed that the events were within the airlines control and they were responsible so they should be paying out. Whilst the original delay was weather, you would have been long gone (a bit delayed) had there not been a technical problem
With a number or reasons attributing to the delay;- weather, ATC, technical, airbridge and then a final cancellation due to an unknown reason (crew out of hours maybe)...it is possible the code logged was weather as the initial delay and this was what was seen when checked however that was not the reason they cancelled the flight, that was technical

jcocker

Caz3121 wrote: »

The part to follow would be out of their Conditions of Carriage
https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/conditions-of-carriage.jsp#delays
"When cancellations and major delays are experienced, you will be rerouted on our next flight with available seats. If the delay or cancellation was caused by events within our control and we do not get you to your final destination on the expected arrival day, we will provide reasonable overnight accommodations, subject to availability."
I would argue that the staff that informed you of the process believed that the events were within the airlines control and they were responsible so they should be paying out. Whilst the original delay was weather, you would have been long gone (a bit delayed) had there not been a technical problem
With a number or reasons attributing to the delay;- weather, ATC, technical, airbridge and then a final cancellation due to an unknown reason (crew out of hours maybe)...it is possible the code logged was weather as the initial delay and this was what was seen when checked however that was not the reason they cancelled the flight, that was technical

Many thanks for the very useful advice! I'll see if I can use it to make them see some sense (not holding my breath though)..

Thanks again.

jackieblack

jcocker wrote: »

In addition to the above, the planes they operate from the US to Europe are very old 757's, with no entertainment system at all, and the seats and pitch are smaller than those you would get on a domestic flight within the UK (for a 7 hour flight...). I would rather swim than use them again next time

Not all AA flights are on 757s, I've had some very good transatlantic flights with AA on A330s and 787s, but I do check what plane they're planning to use before booking and avoid any flights that are scheduled to be on 757s. (I know it's not guaranteed and equipment can change but it's not happened to me yet.)

The convenience of US Pre-clearance at DUB alone makes it worth considering flying AA, especially if you have a connecting flight on arrival in the US

jcocker

jackieblack wrote: »

Not all AA flights are on 757s, I've had some very good transatlantic flights with AA on A330s and 787s, but I do check what plane they're planning to use before booking and avoid any flights that are scheduled to be on 757s. (I know it's not guaranteed and equipment can change but it's not happened to me yet.)

Fair enough. My sample size was 3 - our original flight, the replacement, and the one we eventually took to Amsterdam - all ageing 757's.

I have been going to The States several times everyyear for many years now, using a variety of airlines, and these were the first planes without an entertainment system that I have come across in the last 7-8 years.

meeka

Tyzap wrote: »

Hi Meeka,

Thats quite an endurance trial you have been through.

Each of the operating carriers that let you down are liable, so, you booked through BA but the operating carrier was AA, claim from them for EC261 compensation. AA have been treating their Manchester passengers appallingly this summer and are in the process of running the service down prior to closing the route. Your flight will have been downgraded from a wide body 767 to a single isle 757 in all probability, thus some unlucky passengers had to be off loaded.

You should then claim EC261 compensation from EI too. When you do don't bother mentioning the the whole story, just keep it to a straightforward simple claim.

Who is liable for your expenses, incurred after your arrival at Miami, is debatable but probably with BA as they re routed you and would have know that you would incur further costs en route. The only cost you may not be able to claim back from BA are the Disney tickets, but try anyway. If you fail try going via your insurance.

There is a chance that BA 'MAY' sort the whole thing out in one go (minus the EI compensation claim I would imagine) as they are very entangled in this, so try phoning them first and see how receptive they are.

Good luck.

Hi all,

The good news is that AA accepted responsibility without question and offered compensation which i accepted and sent my bank details for a transfer. As this was 4 weeks ago now I wondered if anyone had the contact details fro AA as there number asks you to put in an extension number which i don't have.
Also does anyone know how long it takes for them to pay the compensation?

No response form Aer lingus yet despite being over a month ago!!

many thanks

Tyzap

meeka wrote: »

Hi all,

The good news is that AA accepted responsibility without question and offered compensation which i accepted and sent my bank details for a transfer. As this was 4 weeks ago now I wondered if anyone had the contact details fro AA as there number asks you to put in an extension number which i don't have.
Also does anyone know how long it takes for them to pay the compensation?

No response form Aer lingus yet despite being over a month ago!!

many thanks

Hi Meeka,

In that case you need to send them both a LBA to push them along and warn them that you WILL take legal action if they don't pay you PDQ.

Don't wait for them to get around to sorting things out, be proactive and give them a hefty shove.

You're on the right track and I'm sure you will get there in the end.

Good luck.

Lw2210

By!Lw221023rd Oct 17, 5:01 PM

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So i booked flights to canada last xmas through air canada we had 2 more connecting flights once we arrived all booked at the same time on the same ticket. We missed one flight ended up at our final destination over 8 hours late. Now air canada are saying we aren't entitled to compensation as the internal flights weren't within the EU regulations? I thought as the flights were all booked as one booking it didn't matter? Ive stated this to them but they still just keep saying about the interal flights not being in the EU. I'm not sure what to say to hem next? Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards Lisa

jackieblack

Lw2210 wrote: »

So i booked flights to canada last xmas through air canada we had 2 more connecting flights once we arrived all booked at the same time on the same ticket. We missed one flight ended up at our final destination over 8 hours late. Now air canada are saying we aren't entitled to compensation as the internal flights weren't within the EU regulations? I thought as the flights were all booked as one booking it didn't matter? Ive stated this to them but they still just keep saying about the interal flights not being in the EU. I'm not sure what to say to hem next? Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards Lisa

You haven't said where you were flying from, where your connections were or who the flights were operated by (just because you booked through Air Canada doesn't necessarily mean that the operating carrier was Air Canada).

However, the basic rule is that flights taking off outside the EU, on a non-EU carrier, are not covered by the EU regs.
It doesn't matter whether they were on one booking or separate bookings from the perspective of EU flight deal compensation. The benefit of having the flights on one booking is that it is the airline's responsibility to get you to your final destination if you miss a connection. If booked separately you'd have to sort out and buy a new flight yourself.