Flight delay compensation, US and Canadian Airlines

Caz3121

Timothea wrote: »

I have a tricky question.

Last year, I was booked to fly back home from New York to London on a full-service airline, with a scheduled stop of one hour (and a change of aircraft) in a third country (outside the EU). Both flights were on the same ticket number, reservation number and booking number. I was denied boarding in New York, and I was rebooked to fly to London the next day on the same airline but by a different route.

The airline has refused to pay any compensation. I intend to file a court claim against the airline soon (which is why I haven't named the airline). Is there any case law that says whether two connecting flights on the same airline constitute a single journey?

I have read the FAQs and Vauban's guide, but neither cover this.

2 things will make difference to your case
Was it an EU airline? - if not EU261 does not apply as the flight was commencing outside the EU (this would have been the case if it had been a direct flight from USA to UK also)
What was the reason for denied boarding?
If you were too late at checkin etc then there is no compensation due. If the flight was overbooked and you were denied your seat due to this then you may be due compensation - assuming this is a non-EU airline, the airline T&Cs will often cover what happens in the event of denied boarding

note: there are countries that are not in the EU as such that do count as a member state e.g. if the flight was Iceland Air, Iceland counts as a member state so EU261 would apply but again any compensation would depend on the reason for being denied boarding

Jirmette1

Well I've had this back from Bott & co...

Good Afternoon

Thank you for your email.

I have now confirmed the matter with our legal manager and he said it is a missed connection outside of the EU and so we won’t be able to deal with it as we have lost them all at the court.



Which kind of contradicts everything I've read on here, they've admitted we arrived 8 hours and 57 minutes later than scheduled. Not sure what to do now at all. Any advice would be really gratefully received. T

Thank you

Caz3121

Read this thread from the start Lyndac40's tale starts at post #29 which is a similar situation to yours. If I recall, she eventually won her case....this thread will hold the full journey then you can decide if you want to go through the same painful process

Timothea

Caz3121 wrote: »

2 things will make difference to your case
Was it an EU airline? - if not EU261 does not apply as the flight was commencing outside the EU (this would have been the case if it had been a direct flight from USA to UK also)
What was the reason for denied boarding?
If you were too late at checkin etc then there is no compensation due. If the flight was overbooked and you were denied your seat due to this then you may be due compensation - assuming this is a non-EU airline, the airline T&Cs will often cover what happens in the event of denied boarding

note: there are countries that are not in the EU as such that do count as a member state e.g. if the flight was Iceland Air, Iceland counts as a member state so EU261 would apply but again any compensation would depend on the reason for being denied boarding

It was a non-EU airline. The compensation I am claiming is for being denied boarding in New York, so US 14 CFR Part 250 applies. The airline didn't offer any compensation or say why I was denied boarding. I arrived in plenty of time with a valid passport, a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation. The flight left as scheduled without me. The airline didn't even ask for volunteers to give up their seat.

The important question is whether the compensation due is based on the final destination (London) or the intermediate stop to catch the connecting flight. Is there any case law that says the distance and delay are calculated based on the final destination. This relates to a full-service airline with both me and my baggage checked through to London.

Voyager2002

Timothea wrote: »

It was a non-EU airline. The compensation I am claiming is for being denied boarding in New York, so US 14 CFR Part 250 applies. The airline didn't offer any compensation or say why I was denied boarding. I arrived in plenty of time with a valid passport, a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation. The flight left as scheduled without me. The airline didn't even ask for volunteers to give up their seat.

The important question is whether the compensation due is based on the final destination (London) or the intermediate stop to catch the connecting flight. Is there any case law that says the distance and delay are calculated based on the final destination. This relates to a full-service airline with both me and my baggage checked through to London.

Since your protection arises from US law rather than EU law, people on this forum are unlikely to be able to answer your questions.

Caz3121

Timothea wrote: »

It was a non-EU airline. The compensation I am claiming is for being denied boarding in New York, so US 14 CFR Part 250 applies. The airline didn't offer any compensation or say why I was denied boarding. I arrived in plenty of time with a valid passport, a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation. The flight left as scheduled without me. The airline didn't even ask for volunteers to give up their seat.

The important question is whether the compensation due is based on the final destination (London) or the intermediate stop to catch the connecting flight. Is there any case law that says the distance and delay are calculated based on the final destination. This relates to a full-service airline with both me and my baggage checked through to London.

I don't see that it makes any difference in US 14 CFR...There are rules for Domestic flights and International flights
You had an international flight and were delayed more than 4 hours

International Transportation
Passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point who are denied boarding involuntarily from an oversold flight originating at a U.S. airport are entitled to: (1) No compensation if the carrier offers alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the passenger's destination or first stopover not later than one hour after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; (2) 200% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $650, if the carrier offers alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the passenger's destination or first stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight; and (3) 400% of the fare to the passenger's destination or first stopover, with a maximum of $1,300, if the carrier does not offer alternate transportation that is planned to arrive at the airport of the passenger's destination or first stopover less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the passenger's original flight.
0 to 1 hour arrival delay No compensation.
1 to 4 hour arrival delay 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $650).
Over 4 hours arrival delay 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,300).

Where are you seeing reference to distance being relevant?
How do you know there were no requests for volunteers? - I have seen people asked as they checked in if they were willing to take another flight and have also been on flights where an announcement was made on board if anyone was prepared to come off the flight.
You mention you and your baggage was checked through to London, do you mean you had already received your boarding passes and they had taken your luggage and you were subsequently denied, implying that it was not overbooking but an issue with being late to the gate or not being deemed fit to travel...what did their refusal response state?

Are you taking court action in the USA or have you had confirmation from your legal council that a judge in the UK can pass judgement on US law?

Tyzap

Timothea wrote: »

It was a non-EU airline. The compensation I am claiming is for being denied boarding in New York, so US 14 CFR Part 250 applies. The airline didn't offer any compensation or say why I was denied boarding. I arrived in plenty of time with a valid passport, a valid ticket and a confirmed reservation. The flight left as scheduled without me. The airline didn't even ask for volunteers to give up their seat.

The important question is whether the compensation due is based on the final destination (London) or the intermediate stop to catch the connecting flight. Is there any case law that says the distance and delay are calculated based on the final destination. This relates to a full-service airline with both me and my baggage checked through to London.

I don't know anything about US regulations but noticed this article in TravelMole, hope it help......


DOT fines American Airlines over 'bumped' passenger compensation



The Department of Transportation has hit American Airlines with a $20,000 fine for not properly compensating a group of travelers bumped off a transatlantic flight.

A group of 11 travelers heading to London from Miami were checked in and given boarding passes but were subsequently told during boarding that seats were overbooked and would have to leave the following day on a flight via Barcelona.

Miami gate agents 'did not offer any meaningful explanation as to what happened to these 11 passengers' reservations,' the DOT said.

No compensation was offered at the time, the DOT report added.

At a later date American offered the group $168 for each ticket and then eventually increased that to $848 per ticket.

The report states American firstly miscalculated the compensation amount due to the 'complexity' of the codeshare itinerary sold by a consolidator, and then on a second attempt made a 'simple currency conversion error.'

The DOT noted 'a problematic internal policy' when reporting on passengers denied boarding.

The policy was described in the ruling as 'unfair and deceptive.'

"We are pleased to have reached a resolution with the Department of Transportation on this matter," said American spokesman Matt Miller.
Thursday, September 17, 2015

Timothea

Caz3121 wrote: »

I don't see that it makes any difference in US 14 CFR...There are rules for Domestic flights and International flights
You had an international flight and were delayed more than 4 hours
...
Where are you seeing reference to distance being relevant?
How do you know there were no requests for volunteers? - I have seen people asked as they checked in if they were willing to take another flight and have also been on flights where an announcement was made on board if anyone was prepared to come off the flight.
You mention you and your baggage was checked through to London, do you mean you had already received your boarding passes and they had taken your luggage and you were subsequently denied, implying that it was not overbooking but an issue with being late to the gate or not being deemed fit to travel...what did their refusal response state?

Are you taking court action in the USA or have you had confirmation from your legal council that a judge in the UK can pass judgement on US law?

You are right; distance is not relevant. The compensation due is based only on the ticket price and the delay.

I was at the check-in desks for over two hours before going to the departure lounge. A few people checked in and I am sure there was no request for volunteers or any announcement.

My baggage and I would have been checked through had I been allowed to board the flight, but I was not checked in until I accepted an alternative routing. On the outbound leg to NewYork, the first flight was fine but the connecting flight was overbooked, so they did ask for voluteers then. Perhaps the connecting flight for the inbound leg was also overbooked.

I will be making a claim in England. Whilst US 14 CFR Part 250 may not be enforceable here, the airline helpfully promises, in its Conditions of Carriage, to pay the compensation due under this regulation for flights departing from the USA. This makes it a contractual term and subject to English law.

I am due to receive a legal opinion in the next few days. Unfortunately, this case is far too complex and unusual for typical NWNF firms, so I will probably need to take this to the small claims court myself.

Vauban

Let us know how you get on - I have never heard of anyone suing a US airline for breach of contract in the UK courts. This will presumably be subject to the provisions of the Montreal Convention. (Given the sums involved, the claim will be allocated to the small claims track, so none of your legal fees - bar the application costs - will be recoverable, even if you win.)

Timothea

Vauban wrote: »

Let us know how you get on - I have never heard of anyone suing a US airline for breach of contract in the UK courts. This will presumably be subject to the provisions of the Montreal Convention. (Given the sums involved, the claim will be allocated to the small claims track, so none of your legal fees - bar the application costs - will be recoverable, even if you win.)

It will be outside the provisions of the Montreal Convention for the same reason that EU compensation is outside the provisions of the Montreal Convention: the claim will be for a debt (i.e. statutory compensation not paid when due) rather than damages (i.e. financial loss). The Montreal Convention only limits claims for damages.

I will have to convince the judge, of course, which may be tricky.