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Cameron get's his reduction in the EU budget.
Comments
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Unlike the pervading view in the UK many on the continent are wanting to move towards greater integration/political union.
But that just is not the case. Look at all the riots and mass demonstrations in the southern european states? UKIP are right, the EU socialist project is a complete and utter disaster. You say its meant to be providing political stability? I think we can safely say that they have failed on that count.0 -
hughgallagher wrote: »You say its meant to be providing political stability? I think we can safely say that they have failed on that count.
And how many European wars have there been between EU member states since the inception of the EU or it's predecessor organisations?
Oh that's right..... None.
Versus, lets see, two world wars and a whole host of smaller conflicts in the decades prior.
I think we can safely say they've succeeded in their main aim.“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
I see posh boy Dave has changed his mind and decided to bring forward draft legislation for a referendum. Is he doing this because it is in the best interests of the country or to serve his own interests? Will the Euro sceptics in his own party believe him in any event? Its unbelievable that such an unprincipled individual is Prime Minister of this country!:mad:
He's just as bad as the rest of this though.
All he is saying is "If I get re-elected" and "if we can't renegotiate" and"we are attempting to change the law".
He's not saying we'll actually get a referendum. He's not saying the law will be there. He's not saying we'll get a referendum.
Like all other parties, labour who promised a referendum, twice! Lib dems who went into this parliament campaigning for a referendum (presumably to up their voter base) who now say it's wrong as they are in power.
They are all the same. That is why UKIP gain support. Let's not pretend the tories are any worse than labour or the lib dems here.0 -
HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »And how many European wars have there been between EU member states since the inception of the EU or it's predecessor organisations?
Oh that's right..... None.
Versus, lets see, two world wars and a whole host of smaller conflicts in the decades prior.
I think we can safely say they've succeeded in their main aim.
There were quite a few more years in the decades prior though....0 -
Graham_Devon wrote: »There were quite a few more years in the decades prior though....
You worry that people might 'forget' interest rates could be higher because they've been low for a few years. Aren't you doing the same here on a grander scale? Conflict in Europe has been normal for the last few hundred years.
What if European peace isn't the new normal and a partial result of European institutions giving countries better opportunities to work towards common goals?
Is it perfect? No. My grandfather and great grandfathers both fought in WW1 & WW2 respectively. They'd be quite pleased to learn that the closest I've come to a European conflict is an argument I once had in a Dutch bar about my expectations that a beer shouldn't be 50% head. Once had a fraught conversation about the use of non-milk fat in UK chocolate too.0 -
My grandfather and great grandfathers both fought in WW1 & WW2 respectively. .
My grandfather was an officer in the Army in WW2, then a doctor for 40 years after the war, a life long Conservative voter, and absolutely certain that the European Union was vital to preventing such horrors from arising again.
I tend to agree....“The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie – deliberate, contrived, and dishonest – but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.”
-- President John F. Kennedy”0 -
Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »The European Parliament is democratically elected.
The European Council consists of all (democratically elected) heads of state.
The European Commission consist of 1 individual per member state (democratically elected). The president and its members are appointed by the European Council and approved by The European Parliament.
If Farage is so concerned with democratic representation, what's his view on our wholly unelected House of Lords and Head of State?
So what candidates were canvassing for votes for the positions of Barrosso and Van ROmpuy?
Who voted for them? I certainly didn't, did you?0 -
iAMaLONDONER wrote: »So what candidates were canvassing for votes for the positions of Barrosso and Van ROmpuy?
Who voted for them? I certainly didn't, did you?
Barosso was elected by the European Parliament.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?language=en&type=IM-PRESS&reference=20090911IPR60583
Van Rompuy was unanimously elected by the European Council.
http://www.european-council.europa.eu/home-page/highlights/president-van-rompuy-re-elected-for-a-second-term
No, it's not a direct vote, but as both Council and Parliament are filled with democratically elected members, it's as close as realistically feasible.
When confronted by Farage with the question "Who voted for you?", Barosso could have replied "The European Parliament".
But I imagine Barosso knows better than to engage in 'debate' with some populist loony.0 -
Mr._Pricklepants wrote: »Barosso was elected by the European Parliament.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?language=en&type=IM-PRESS&reference=20090911IPR60583
Van Rompuy was unanimously elected by the European Council.
http://www.european-council.europa.eu/home-page/highlights/president-van-rompuy-re-elected-for-a-second-term
No, it's not a direct vote, but as both Council and Parliament are filled with democratically elected members, it's as close as realistically feasible.
When confronted by Farage with the question "Who voted for you?", Barosso could have replied "The European Parliament".
But I imagine Barosso knows better than to engage in 'debate' with some populist loony.
Just like the Soviet Union where the leaders were 'elected' by the politburo
Elected unanimously - who were the other candidates?
Anyhow the European Parliament doesn't even have that much power compared to the European Commission. And it's technocrats- just think how they took over Italy
Plus I wish Thatcher had of gone further and got a 100% EU rebate
After all, the EU is likely to overspend it's budget by up to 5% which could lead to Britain's contributions increasing0 -
iAMaLONDONER wrote: »Just like the Soviet Union where the leaders were 'elected' bg yhe politburo
You're the perfect example of why a referendum is a bad idea.0
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