Cameron get's his reduction in the EU budget.

pqrdef

iAMaLONDONER wrote: »

Next stop an EU referendum!

We can all vote Yes now then.

But if the problem is all solved, why is UKIP doing so well?

iAMaLONDONER

pqrdef wrote: »

We can all vote Yes now then.

But if the problem is all solved, why is UKIP doing so well?

We're still part of the EU!

And the vast majority of us would hate to lose the pound!

And Farage does sound better than Ed Milliband and Clegg!

Moby

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Nearly £100bn less than proposed.

Well done Cameron for sticking in there. Will Milliand now apologise considering he stated in no untoward terms, he simply would not get this and made a party political point about it?

I think the first reply to your post showed you the pointlessness of his position. The tories are completely split on Europe simply because the anti EC part of the party do not believe that Cameron can achieve anything substantive in his opt out negotiations. Surely this is clear to everyone no matter what their personal political bias? You also know as well as I do that Cameron wants to stay in European union. He hopes the opt out negotiations will be a fig leave of cover he can sell to the euro phobes.

Miliband has not changed his position. He says no referendum unless further power transfer to EC is proposed. Until recently this was also the policy of the tories! They have changed their policies because of ukip and internal division! What is it about this that people on here don't understand!:mad:

Graham_Devon

Moby wrote: »

Miliband has not changed his position. He says no referendum unless further power transfer to EC is proposed. Until recently this was also the policy of the tories! They have changed their policies because of ukip and internal division! What is it about this that people on here don't understand!:mad:

Getting angry old fella?

This thread was actually a response to what Milliband have told Cameron. Milliband said he would come out empty handed. He didn't. He did better than all expectations.

You can keep running, but you can't hide from what Milliband stated.

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Graham_Devon wrote: »

You can keep running,

Speaking of which.... Good to see you've popped back into the thread after such a long disappearance.:)

How about a response to post 54 now.

michaels

Moby wrote: »

Miliband has not changed his position. He says no referendum unless further power transfer to EC is proposed. Until recently this was also the policy of the tories! They have changed their policies because of ukip and internal division! What is it about this that people on here don't understand!:mad:

Umm so I seem to remember he was part of the Labour Govt that didn't give anyone a vote on the Lisbon Treaty.

Plus isn't a lot of the EU legislation now self-enabling so that the EU can extend its powers without requiring any new agreements (that voters might object to)? Makes a platform of 'any new transfer of powers will result in a referendum' sound liek a mealy mouthed political dodge when the EU can already expand its remit using only the 'powers' it already has.

Nothing wrong with being pro-european but not having the balls to argue for your postion nor to give the public their say on the matter is just pure cowardice.

Generali

michaels wrote: »

Umm so I seem to remember he was part of the Labour Govt that didn't give anyone a vote on the Lisbon Treaty.

Plus isn't a lot of the EU legislation now self-enabling so that the EU can extend its powers without requiring any new agreements (that voters might object to)? Makes a platform of 'any new transfer of powers will result in a referendum' sound liek a mealy mouthed political dodge when the EU can already expand its remit using only the 'powers' it already has.

Nothing wrong with being pro-european but not having the balls to argue for your postion nor to give the public their say on the matter is just pure cowardice.

I am no UKIP supporter (they don't stand for election in Australia for some reason) but Farrage is on the money about European democracy in this rather old rant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY

I would like to ask you President...who voted for you? What mechanism do the peoples of Europe have to get rid of you?

TBH I'd have kept off the insults in Farrage's shoes but he is spot on about the EU being fundamentally undemocratic. That, to my mind, is completely indefensible.

Mr._Pricklepants

Generali wrote: »

TBH I'd have kept off the insults in Farrage's shoes but he is spot on about the EU being fundamentally undemocratic. That, to my mind, is completely indefensible.

The European Parliament is democratically elected.

The European Council consists of all (democratically elected) heads of state.

The European Commission consist of 1 individual per member state (democratically elected). The president and its members are appointed by the European Council and approved by The European Parliament.

If Farage is so concerned with democratic representation, what's his view on our wholly unelected House of Lords and Head of State?

Moby

I see posh boy Dave has changed his mind and decided to bring forward draft legislation for a referendum. Is he doing this because it is in the best interests of the country or to serve his own interests? Will the Euro sceptics in his own party believe him in any event? Its unbelievable that such an unprincipled individual is Prime Minister of this country!:mad:

Moby

Generali wrote: »

I am no UKIP supporter (they don't stand for election in Australia for some reason) but Farrage is on the money about European democracy in this rather old rant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bypLwI5AQvY



TBH I'd have kept off the insults in Farrage's shoes but he is spot on about the EU being fundamentally undemocratic. That, to my mind, is completely indefensible.

There you go Generali. Here's warm words from your hero. Its seems his principled stand on democracy only extends as far as European institutions.....not our own:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVMpoWb3Kvc